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Quitting Trading
- Thread starter jasper6
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Alright listen closely. Firstly, no reason to be cash. You must first prove yourself in sim than you can move onto cash. Secondly, go read the AHG thread from beginning to end before you place another trade. Than apply those concepts to the ES or ER2 or whatever your trading using a normal chart (i.e. 1 min, 5 min, 15 min). This should set you on the right path. For a good simulator check out ninja trader with zen fire. Once you are consistent and I mean 1-2 months consistent profits in sim, go live. Best of luck to you.
There's always a chance he could get it. Sure. But, would you tell your kid to quit school and just play basketball 'cause you know,1 out of 50,000 kids end up being in the NBA anyways.
I give advice based on the probability that he can make it or not. There's always the chance he'd get it and make a gazillion dollars. But at this point, I'd say he won't.
I give advice based on the probability that he can make it or not. There's always the chance he'd get it and make a gazillion dollars. But at this point, I'd say he won't.
Quote from jdeezero05:
Yea that would have been great advice to Mark Cook too. Instead of winning the 1992 trading challenge and being interviewd by Schwager, turning 100s of ES cars a day now he could have had a nice safe life as a dairy farmer.
sorry, but anyone who stays in the game for 8 years is past the point of no return.
Quote from jasper6:
I've been trying to make it as a trader for eight years. I have yet to have a profitable year. I have been living off my savings from a previous venture and that is now below $75K.
Everyone I talk to says to quit. My family thinks I am just a gambler. My psychiatrist thinks I am addicted to trading.
I don't know what to do. I'm 51 and alone. My last two girlfriends left because they were worried about my finances and couldn't deal with the down days.
I have no idea where to turn from here. What am I supposed to put on a resume - eight years as a daytrader? I don't even want to work for someone else, anyway and don't know what else I would do.
All I ever wanted was to find a consistent way to pull one point from the market and trade size as my account built up. I only need $200 per day to keep going.
I'm sure I'm not the first failed trader being faced with these options. I could sure use some words of advice, though.
As an ex-floor trader, I've seen failed traders go on to become richer than the traders they used to work with. You obviously like the markets. Become a broker. The money and the safety are better than most traders experience. You get young 20-somethings to clear their trades through a clearing firm where you are the introducing broker, and you take a cut of the commissions. Get 50 guys trading.
And don't forget to absolutely disregard any negative opinions psychiatrists or girlfriends may have of you. Have you ever totally forgot something that happened 10 minutes ago? That's the objective here.
First let me say you are one hell of a unique and tenacious individual, very few people could stick it out for 8 tough losing years AND against the advice of everyone around them. Respect.
If I were in your position I would stop trading immediately.
I would get a job ASAP, something that pays as much as you can get right now with some potential for advancement and with health insurance given your age. This is not to be some BS job but a real one that you will take seriously and put your best effort in to.
I would start to volunteer doing something that I enjoyed. Again, a long term commitment.
I would work toward a fitness goal.
In short you need to build your confidence back up and broaden your perspective and get some balance back in your life, after 8 years focused on trading and not making money your confidence has to be shot.
If you don't have it already pick up Elders book Trading for a living and follow the steps, putting together the business plan etc. The get Trading in the Zone if you don't have it already. These books will give you the frame work you need and then you have to come up with an edge and after 8 years you probably have several that will work if applied with proper trade and money management.
Come up with 10 good strategies, whittle them down to 3 that look the most promising and that are somewhat uncorrelated. Back test if that is feasible but either way get on C2 and put them to work. Double your money, tweaking as needed, double again. Then go live and if possible while still working (i.e. focus on swing or EOD strategies) How long that will all take will depend on how much work you put in to it and how good your strategies are but meanwhile you will be living a balanced healthy and most importantly fulfilling life, putting in place a back up plan, and increasing your trading capitol.
Best of luck.
If I were in your position I would stop trading immediately.
I would get a job ASAP, something that pays as much as you can get right now with some potential for advancement and with health insurance given your age. This is not to be some BS job but a real one that you will take seriously and put your best effort in to.
I would start to volunteer doing something that I enjoyed. Again, a long term commitment.
I would work toward a fitness goal.
In short you need to build your confidence back up and broaden your perspective and get some balance back in your life, after 8 years focused on trading and not making money your confidence has to be shot.
If you don't have it already pick up Elders book Trading for a living and follow the steps, putting together the business plan etc. The get Trading in the Zone if you don't have it already. These books will give you the frame work you need and then you have to come up with an edge and after 8 years you probably have several that will work if applied with proper trade and money management.
Come up with 10 good strategies, whittle them down to 3 that look the most promising and that are somewhat uncorrelated. Back test if that is feasible but either way get on C2 and put them to work. Double your money, tweaking as needed, double again. Then go live and if possible while still working (i.e. focus on swing or EOD strategies) How long that will all take will depend on how much work you put in to it and how good your strategies are but meanwhile you will be living a balanced healthy and most importantly fulfilling life, putting in place a back up plan, and increasing your trading capitol.
Best of luck.
I'm late to the discussion ... I saw you mention that you use 1 point stops - for me, that would spell death by a thousand cuts.
I would get some steady income coming in from another source and work on longer time frames and a much higher level of selectivity in your trade selections.
What works for me is high selectivity (patience), slowly scaling in to indexes on weakness and then scaling out into strength - no shorting and no leverage (unless the smoke has cleared after the nuke has gone off).
I would get some steady income coming in from another source and work on longer time frames and a much higher level of selectivity in your trade selections.
What works for me is high selectivity (patience), slowly scaling in to indexes on weakness and then scaling out into strength - no shorting and no leverage (unless the smoke has cleared after the nuke has gone off).
Quote from jasper6:
I've been trying to make it as a trader for eight years. I have yet to have a profitable year. I have been living off my savings from a previous venture and that is now below $75K.
Check your IQ, if it's below 125, stop trading. 125 is the average for the non-diluted pool of human beings.
The reason I mentioned IQ is that we just cannot teach cows to play piano. In academic terms, it's the genetic composition that determines to a large extent the achievements of human beings. In layman's term, it's a matter of nature vs. nurture.
Also, about your claim of 8 years of trading:
Time (8 years or 18 years) is not the causal factor. Let me explain myself: A piece of iron left outdoors went rusty after three days, you would reach the conclusion that it takes 3 days for iron to become rusty. But what really happened is the iron's exposure to oxygen and moisture. By increasing or decreasing the exposure, the time will change accordingly. If the iron is not allowed to be exposed to oxygen, it will never go rusty, regardless of time.
By the way, most of the posters are secretly enjoying your pain. These motherfuckers are losers themselves, I can tell. They just need to see someone in MORE pain than their own. When you post a story of pain, you will get many responses.
Tell you what, you can deprive them of their joy by posting a message saying that you have fabricated your story and that you are actually a profitable trader with, say an annual income of $700,000 to $900,000. Now those motherfuckers will be extremely disappointed.
Quote from 4DTrader:
Quote from jasper6:
I've been trying to make it as a trader for eight years. I have yet to have a profitable year. I have been living off my savings from a previous venture and that is now below $75K.
Check your IQ, if it's below 125, stop trading. 125 is the average for the non-diluted pool of human beings.
The reason I mentioned IQ is that we just cannot teach cows to play piano. In academic terms, it's the genetic composition that determines to a large extent the achievements of human beings. In layman's term, it's a matter of nature vs. nurture.
Also, about your claim of 8 years of trading:
Time (8 years or 18 years) is not the causal factor. Let me explain myself: A piece of iron left outdoors went rusty after three days, you would reach the conclusion that it takes 3 days for iron to become rusty. But what really happened is the iron's exposure to oxygen and moisture. By increasing or decreasing the exposure, the time will change accordingly. If the iron is not allowed to be exposed to oxygen, it will never go rusty, regardless of time.
By the way, most of the posters are secretly enjoying your pain. These motherfuckers are losers themselves, I can tell. They just need to see someone in MORE pain than their own. When you post a story of pain, you will get many responses.
Tell you what, you can deprive them of their joy by posting a message saying that you have fabricated your story and that you are actually a profitable trader with, say an annual income of $700,000 to $900,000. Now those motherfuckers will be extremely disappointed.
I strongly disagree. IQ is no factor. Trading involves strong discipline and money management skills, not "above average" intelligence. You sound extremely mislead and pulling 6 figure numbers out of your ass to measure success confirms that you're completely clueless. The "real" traders around here that are giving honest advice are not enjoying this guy's pain. Unless you're willing to give helpful direction and advice then piss off. You're one of the reasons this forum is becoming a joke.
As for my advice to the OP. I second those who say take a break. Get your head straight and focus on what's really important in your life. I can only imagine how 8 years of losses can weigh on a person. If trading is really your passion then stick with it, find a way to make a fresh start and get a new perspective on what you're doing since what you have been doing isn't working. If your heart isn't in it then move on, you certainly have perserverance which is the key to success in any field. Good luck to you.
I for one almost quit trading on more than one occasion
and was even told by a trader friend to take a "stop loss"
and get on with my life
somehow I pulled it together again
and this yr is my best yr yet and
I have not had a losing week in 08
unfortunately outside of financial gains
I have had to deal with ( or ignore ) issues that need to be addressed
perhaps this has given me even more discipline in my trading
but at what cost ?
my point ... even successfull traders need to be able to look at the big picture
... not only those who seem to not be able to make a living at this
and was even told by a trader friend to take a "stop loss"
and get on with my life
somehow I pulled it together again
and this yr is my best yr yet and
I have not had a losing week in 08
unfortunately outside of financial gains
I have had to deal with ( or ignore ) issues that need to be addressed
perhaps this has given me even more discipline in my trading
but at what cost ?
my point ... even successfull traders need to be able to look at the big picture
... not only those who seem to not be able to make a living at this
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