Questions about Tithing

Quote from johnpinochet:

murray t turtle,

Yes, I understand that for some segments, the giving goes way beyond 10%.

The part that I quoted really bugs me. So much is fundamentally wrong in the above quote I don't even know where to begin.

Under grace and yet we must compete with the Joneses, always trying to do one better than the next guy?

Kind of reminds me of why I left one of the demoninations I mentioned briefly, i.e. inflated salvation numbers ala McDonald's billions sold, bait and switch invitation tactics to ice cream socials that to be truthful should have been advertised as a religious service etc etc.

Bottom line, how does this scripture fit in with that pastor's view point:

2 Corinthians 9:7 "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

1 Peter Chapter 1:17-19
"17 If you call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, pass the time of your living as foreigners here in reverent fear:

18 knowing that you were redeemed, not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, from the useless way of life handed down from your fathers,

19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;"

Regarding curses:

Gal 3:13
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

I've never understood why salvation in Christ isn't enough. According to some we have to follow Mosaic law as well. The problem is that they are picking and choosing the parts of the law to follow. The tithe is a perfect example. Every Jubilee you were to have a festival. No tithe was collected that year. How would that go over today? A portion of the tithe went to the Levites, where are they today?

RE: holding a party with the tithe, look closely at Deut. 14:22 through Deut. 14:29. How does this jive with the denominations today that are teaching the tithe as most if not all prohibit alcohol.

Bottom line, I'm not speaking against the tithe. I believe we are to give freely and joyfully and even sacrificially with 2 Cor 9:7 as a powerful indication of the correct mindset and path to choose. I'm against the hypocrisy of choosing to follow Mosaic law, and then not following it completely to the letter.
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I believe you are setting up a straw man argument. Saying that those who believe in the tithe are choosing to follow Mosaic law is incorrect. But , it is mine and others fault for not make ourselves more clear. Those of us who feel the tithe is for today do not believe we are following Mosaic law. We feel it is a principal that is all throughout the bible.
First, there were types and shadows. Some think that Adam leaving alone the tree of knowledge was a type of tithe. Then, Abels offering of the first fruits was a type of tithe.
Second, Abraham tithed to Melchizidek. Then, Jacob made a vow to tithe off of all his increase. So here you find the actual tithe.
Third, the tithe was put into Levitical law.
Move forward to the new testament in the book of Hebrews, and in chapter seven, verse twelve it says we are back under the Melchizidek kind of priesthood. Verse nine and ten says that the Levites,(representing the Hebrew people), did not start tithing under the law, they were tithing already through Abraham.
So, we have established that tithing is throughout the bible and not just in the law. Many of us feel that the admonition to walk in the footsteps of Abraham(Romans 4,verse 12), and to follow this biblical principal is the correct thing to do.
One step further would be to look at verse eight of chapter seven and see that it says (he recieves them) referring to the tithe being recieved by the everlasting priesthood right now. The words "recieves them" were added by the translators, so you have to decide for yourselves if they fit. Many believe these words fit along with everything else in the context of what we have studied.
Now, whether you choose to accept this teaching is yours to decide, but the argument that we just want to pick and choose amongst Mosaic laws is incorrect.
 
fhl,

Thank you for your well thought out reply. It will require further study on my part. I do believe in your case (and perhaps others) that the question is one of semantics, i.e. you call it tithing, I call it giving.

I have a few questions to clarify things, however I can't write at length now.
 
fhl,

I've given the matter much thought and my conclusion is that what you are calling tithing, I call giving. I conclude this based on your scripture references and your interpretation of them which leaves out my issues of concern, i.e. Jubilee, alcoholic drink etc. Note that this is not a criticism. Your thinking is consistent. In my opinion, this is the only logical way to justify the tithe: it is giving. The other Mosaic law requirements re: tithing don't apply as it really isn't Mosaic law tithing.

Have I interpreted your position correctly?

I had other questions to ask for further clarification, however on second thought I'm not going to ask them as they would be mis-interpreted as being antagonistic, when in reality I simply wish to understand.
 
Quote from johnpinochet:

fhl,

I've given the matter much thought and my conclusion is that what you are calling tithing, I call giving. I conclude this based on your scripture references and your interpretation of them which leaves out my issues of concern, i.e. Jubilee, alcoholic drink etc. Note that this is not a criticism. Your thinking is consistent. In my opinion, this is the only logical way to justify the tithe: it is giving. The other Mosaic law requirements re: tithing don't apply as it really isn't Mosaic law tithing.

Have I interpreted your position correctly?

I had other questions to ask for further clarification, however on second thought I'm not going to ask them as they would be mis-interpreted as being antagonistic, when in reality I simply wish to understand.
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No problem. The bible calls what Abraham did in the old testament a tithe, both when he did it and in Hebrews chapter seven. And he was not under the law. And, as I said previously, the two verses in Heb 7 seem to be saying that those who tithed under the law did not start then, but were already tithing through Abraham. This is why many people believe the tithe is for today, while other requirements that were only under the law are not. It seems to me, and I only conjecture, that the point of calling it giving instead of a tithe, is that you may not be able to dissassociate tithing with the law. But, it is no more an item of the law in the new testament than baptism or communion. Just something that will bless you if you do it.
I realize not everybody accepts this. No need to have strife over it.
 
Quote from johnpinochet:

murray t turtle,

Lying and intentional deceit have no place in the body of Christ.

The example I used really did happen. Outside of a church setting on a college campus, but only advertised as free ice cream. In other words, young college students would only see the free ice cream part. Once they got to the place, well, you know the rest of the story. Why wasn't the event advertised as a religious service?

Everyone who points out an error is bitter?

I notice that you haven't addressed any of my points. No problem as it is not profitable to engage in arguments especially with a fellow Christian.

If you are so inclined and can accommodate one question, here it is:

Do you believe that every few years (I'm not sure of the exact number here, as I'm not up to speed on Mosaic law) the tithe must go to widows, orphans and the poor as well as that every few years a festival is held and the tithe is to be eaten by the Church and during this festival alcohol is permitted to be consumed?
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John;
I1] in essentials , unity,
[2]in non essentials, diversity
Dont see ''lying /errors''in that ice cream ad'' or ''essentials''
[2 again] in non essentials like icream social ads ,diversity
[3]in all things charity

Actually something leadership does is make close calls[ obvious calls are obvious].Agree with leadership, mentioned our church monthly benevolent fund similar to a 3rd year tithe,'' as example''.

Better go with Word , dont get drunk with wine, ever be filled with Spirit. Ephesians 5;18 amplified Bible. Continuous command.

Back to following leadership again, do you think our church leader ship is compromising the Word of God because they do it monthly instead of every third year.???????

All these things happened to them as ensamples[examples] to us;
1st Corinthians 10;11, referring to Israel as example to us.

Lots of people dont like to follow leaders as they follow Word;
been there, dont live there.

Our church does ads for ice cream socials also, actually a religious ad line would be out of order for us, we're much more about redemption, relationships, NOT religion.

Long live the difference; John are you aware of the difference between religion
and redemption-relationship.???????????????? Its the difference between heaven & hell .
Thank you.

:cool:
 
murray t turtle,

Have you noticed any difference between our posts?

Your posts always question my faith or my understanding of scripture. My posts reflect my opinion, however I also state that I have a desire to learn, a desire to be corrected if I'm wrong. To the best of my knowledge I've never questioned your faith nor your understanding of scripture. If I have then please forgive me. The issue of tithing vs giving is one that would fall under the diversity heading you mention above.

The issue of the ice cream social while seeming to be rather funny and insignificant, for me is rather serious. How difficult is it to say, "Hey my church is having an ice cream social, let's go" versus "Hey, free ice cream let's go"? If the intent of the organizers is to present the Gospel, then I believe they should state this up front. My point being that obscuring intent indicates much larger issues going on that need to be addressed.

In any event, I believe I know where you're coming from, so no need to continue.
 
Quote from johnpinochet:

murray t turtle,

Have you noticed any difference between our posts?

Your posts always question my faith or my understanding of scripture.

My posts reflect my opinion, however I also state that I have a desire to learn, a desire to be corrected if I'm wrong. To the best of my knowledge I've never questioned your faith nor your understanding of scripture. If I have then please forgive me. The issue of tithing vs giving is one that would fall under the diversity heading you mention above.

The issue of the ice cream social while seeming to be rather funny and insignificant, for me is rather serious. How difficult is it to say, "Hey my church is having an ice cream social, let's go" versus "Hey, free ice cream let's go"? If the intent of the organizers is to present the Gospel, then I believe they should state this up front. My point being that obscuring intent indicates much larger issues going on that need to be addressed.
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Any ideas on learning that doesnt involve questions ?????.

1] In all things, charity
2] In non essentials, diversity[like ice cream social ads]
3] I n essentials, unity.

Agree much larger isues need to be adressed,if someone who is not a church leader calls his idea, when scripture is silent on icream ads an ''essential''

THANK YOU being honest enough to tell me about your religious opinion about non essentials like ice cream socials;
& honest enough , not answer my question about redemption-relatiopnship. Silence is a polite answer also


:cool:
 
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