Questions about Tithing

Quote from vhehn:

if you read what i posted you just might figure it out.


http://www.gotosimpletruth.com/tithe.htm

History of Tithing
Most people who practice tithing today are unaware of the actual history of how the collection of tithes became a church practice. Nearly every pulpit today telling people to tithe has their roots in Pagan Catholicism. Yes tithing and the collection of tithes were made to be a LAW by the Catholics.

Tithing was NEVER practiced in all of church history until it was instituted by a group of Catholic Bishops at an assembly in Tours France in 567AD. After that the people still refused to tithe or tithed reluctantly. So later in 585AD, at the Council of Macon they issued several "new laws." Several laws for violating the Sunday rest and then they nailed the people with a demand insisting on the obligation of the people to pay tithes. If someone did not pay their tithes, they were considered as someone who was "Robbing God." Sound familiar?

You must realize that up to that point, tithing had NEVER been a practice by anyone. Not even the reprobate Catholic INSTITUTION collected tithes before these dates. There were no other churches.

http://www.thegraceproject.com/Articles/The Tithing Controversy- No laughing Matter.htm
There is only one reference to tithing in the entire New Covenant writings

The rationale for the tithing argument goes something like this:
1. Abraham is the father of all who believe;
2. Abraham paid tithes;
3. Abraham paid the tithe before the law was introduced;
4. Tithing is pre-law and therefore, is still applicable.

In response, we make the following observations:

1. If Abraham provides the paradigm for tithing, then we may also assume that the tithe is a one-off and is paid from the spoils of war;

2. If the pre-law argument validates tithing, why do the same people not argue with equal alacrity that circumcision is a New Covenant requirement.?

The initial question that I want to explore concerns our motivation for "giving." The following may simply be a commentary on my heart and not representative of the Christian community and I trust that you will not find me unduly cynical. However, my experience is that most Christians give for one of two reasons and neither is very honourable:

1. Insurance : God will get me if I don't
2. Investment : God will bless me if I do

Therefore, we say that tithing for many a Christian, whether consciously or unconsciously, serves as their divine fire insurance premiums.

Perhaps now I am parodying the point but it seems to me at least that what we are doing in the main is on the one hand, we are paying God protection money to leave us alone and on the other hand, we are investing into the Kingdom with a view to maximizing our returns. We are seeking to protect and/or increase our asset base. What we are not doing is GIVING without any expectation of reward other than the reward of giving.

We give for one of two reasons - God will get me if don't and He will bless me if I do

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161
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Vhen, the problem I have with your historical perspective is that you do not use a single quote from the very source you are trying to disclaim. If you say something is not biblical, then show me where you can back that up in the bible, or where it is left out. The book of Malachi explicitly addresses tithing in chapter 3 and was written some time around 433 B.C., which supersedes your reference given to the Catholic Bishops in 567AD.

The more important thing to understand is the purpose of tithing. We tithe simply because God tells us to. Obedience is the proof we love God and trust Him. It is not a discipline of fear as one would think, but a reverent fear that reciprocates God's favor on our lives.
 
Quote from stockerup:

Vhen, the problem I have with your historical perspective is that you do not use a single quote from the very source you are trying to disclaim. If you say something is not biblical, then show me where you can back that up in the bible, or where it is left out. The book of Malachi explicitly addresses tithing in chapter 3 and was written some time around 433 B.C., which supersedes your reference given to the Catholic Bishops in 567AD.

The more important thing to understand is the purpose of tithing. We tithe simply because God tells us to. Obedience is the proof we love God and trust Him. It is not a discipline of fear as one would think, but a reverent fear that reciprocates God's favor on our lives.
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i ask once again. show me the exact verses that say you must give 10% of your money to a church. if you cant cite a verse in the bible that commands you to give 10% of your money to a church it isnt biblical.
 
Quote from vhehn:

i ask once again. show me the exact verses that say you must give 10% of your money to a church. if you cant cite a verse in the bible that commands you to give 10% of your money to a church it isnt biblical.
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Malachi 3:10.


Definition of tithe:

A tithe (from Old English teogotha "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax or levy, usually to support a Jewish or Christian religious organization. Today, tithes (or tithing) are normally voluntary and paid in cash, checks, or stocks, whereas historically tithes could be paid in kind, such as agricultural products.

Storehouse is used instead of the word church. Also, it does not say "give" it says "bring". There is a big difference.
 
Quote from vhehn:

i ask once again. show me the exact verses that say you must give 10% of your money to a church. if you cant cite a verse in the bible that commands you to give 10% of your money to a church it isnt biblical.
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There you go again with "unbiblical."

Let me give you an example of something which is unbiblical, but is in fact extra-biblical.

Ready? Catholic veneration of saints.

No Explicit or supportable implicit verses towards that notion. You'd have to get really creative to back up the notion that it's permissible. While at the same time avoiding to trap of divination.

Another one: "God helps those who helps themselves." No where to be found in the bible. So that makes it unbiblical.

So then, is tithing unbiblical? No. Is it applicable under the new testament? Really depends on your theological disposition. I say, it doesn't apply and can support my position. Covenant theologians will say it does. Well naturally, because they believe the church is the spiritual replaement of Israel. So, they would follow any ordinance which has a promise attached to it. As they believe all the promises of Isreal now apply to the church.
 
Quote from stockerup:

Malachi 3:10.


Definition of tithe:

A tithe (from Old English teogotha "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax or levy, usually to support a Jewish or Christian religious organization. Today, tithes (or tithing) are normally voluntary and paid in cash, checks, or stocks, whereas historically tithes could be paid in kind, such as agricultural products.

Storehouse is used instead of the word church. Also, it does not say "give" it says "bring". There is a big difference.
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Malachi 3:10 does not say you must give 10% of your income to a church. you are doing the same thing preachers do today. you are inserting your opinion or what other men have convinced you to believe as a biblical command.
here is a little bible study for you. answer these questions.

1. what did abraham tithe?
2. what form does the bible command the tithes be in?(hint its not money)
3.exactly who was to recieve the tithes and why?
 
Quote from ddunbar:

There you go again with "unbiblical."

Let me give you an example of something which is unbiblical, but is in fact extra-biblical.

Ready? Catholic veneration of saints.

No Explicit or supportable implicit verses towards that notion. You'd have to get really creative to back up the notion that it's permissible. While at the same time avoiding to trap of divination.

Another one: "God helps those who helps themselves." No where to be found in the bible. So that makes it unbiblical.

So then, is tithing unbiblical? No. Is it applicable under the new testament? Really depends on your theological disposition. I say, it doesn't apply and can support my position. Covenant theologians will say it does. Well naturally, because they believe the church is the spiritual replaement of Israel. So, they would follow any ordinance which has a promise attached to it. As they believe all the promises of Isreal now apply to the church.
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if preachers twist the words of the bible to convince you of something it does not make it biblical.
show me the verse that says you must give 10% of your income to any church.
 
Quote from vhehn:

if preachers twist the words of the bible to convince you of something it does not make it biblical.
show me the verse that says you must give 10% of your income to any church.
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Re-read the post(s) I made in reply to you. I never said that tithing is a new testament ordinace. So I have no burden of proof to say it is.

My issue with you is that you apparently have ZERO idea of what "unbiblical" means.

Unbiblical is something not contained in or in accordance with the bible.

Tithing, is contained in and in accordance with the bible. The issue is whether or not it is applicable to New testament saints as it was to Old testament Hebrews. Malachi is an old testament book. Nowhere in the new testament can the ordinance of tithing be found. But then again, no where in the NT does it explicitly say it doesn't apply. Only implicitly.

Why don't you get this? I believe you might but are too prideful to admit that you used a wrong terminology.
 
Quote from ddunbar:

Re-read the post(s) I made in reply to you. I never said that tithing is a new testament ordinace. So I have no burden of proof to say it is.

My issue with you is that you apparently have ZERO idea of what "unbiblical" means.

Unbiblical is something not contained in or in accordance with the bible.

Tithing, is contained in and in accordance with the bible. The issue is whether or not it is applicable to New testament saints as it was to Old testament Hebrews. Malachi is an old testament book. Nowhere in the new testament can the ordinance of tithing be found. But then again, no where in the NT does it explicitly say it doesn't apply. Only implicitly.

Why don't you get this? I believe you might but are too prideful to admit that you used a wrong terminology.
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i dont have time to nitpick words. i ment tithing 10%of your income as understood and practiced by christians today is not biblical.
 
Quote from vhehn:

i dont have time to nitpick words. i ment tithing 10%of your income as understood and practiced by christians today is not biblical.
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You know, Vhehn, you remind me of somebody trying to beat their head against a rock. Enough proof has been given in this thread to prove tithing is biblical. The real question here is weather or not you accept it. If you don't, then that's your choice; but, regardless of how you interpret it or understand it, nothing you do nor say will negate God's Word.
 
Someone asked for new testament passages on tithing.

Here's one. Mathew 23, verse 23.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (ed note, it says not to leave the "tithing" undone.)

Another: Hebrews 7, verses 1 to 10.
This passage explains how Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, who is a type of Christ, before the law. The Levitical priesthood had not been enacted yet, so the tithe was not meant solely for that purpose. Also, I don't have a passage to site, but I believe that priests in the old covenant were required to tithe to the higher priests. Jesus is our high priest, on the order of Melchizedek.
 
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