Question for Traders Who's Main Income Comes From Trading

[JRL]

Quote from ElecEquity:

It's the upstream swim against our emotions. The best way to find out is to go live. Check out Lucias' journal. I think he [auto]traded sim, went live, and I think he's now negative. Nothing personal against him, but trading live is a lot different than a sim.

When you're down on the day on sim, you probably keep swinging as if it's no big deal...that may change when you go live. You may 2nd guess yourself, your mind may start to only focus on negative possibilities, etc... Everyone is different. You may end up trading exactly like you do on sim....but I doubt it.

Just go live and you'll find out more than you'll ever find out by asking anyone on ET.

Thanks for this.

Honestly, my main concerns are with the technical differences between the two scenarios (ie - slippage), a lot more so than succumbing to emotional responses. I came into a bit of money in my early 20s through real estate, and then subsequently went on to almost lose it all. That really affected me, in a positive way, as it relates to investing and an overall view of market behavior. Like many people that age, I kinda considered myself bulletproof ("that kinda stuff would never happen to ME"), and then it all came crashing down. That changes a person.

 

[wrbtrader]

Quote from JRL:

Actually, this isn't correct.

If I'm up a fair bit and don't feel comfortable in the direction that the market's going, I'll just cover and GTFO. Really, I'm not greedy. Profit is profit.

You will never understand until you trade with real money on the line as a discretionary trader (someone not using an automated system). Simply, profit is not a profit in simulating trading. Therefore, I highly recommend you move from simulator to real money trading if you feel you have a trading plan ready to go and has been fully tested so that you feel comfortable in applying your trade method.

Mark

 

[oldtime]

Quote from JRL:

If I'm profitable, I'm happy. Whether that's 1 penny or 10. A gain is a gain.

Your post suggests that there's some great secret associated with knowing why "profit isn't profit". Please, I'm dying to know. I don't care about "opportunity loss", if that's what you're referring to.

well, first of all, I've read through all the posts. Nobody is trying to discourage you from trading, it's just we all know how easy it is to blow up and those of us who have blown up feel at least if we can help somebody else it might make the whole thing a little less worthless.

The problem with small profits is you need even smaller losses or many more profits than losses.

This is just trading 101 and has been discussed and analyzed ad infinitum all the way to et cetera and e pluribus union. Not to mention delta gamma and theta.

If there were an infinite number of small profits to be taken, then I'm right with you. As a matter of fact my greatest weakness is that I am not greedy.

One of the great things about being a broker was I got to see many accounts.

The few winners accounts always had many small losses all paid for by a few big winning trades. So taking that quick small profit doesn't really pay for anything except another small quick loss.

I don't know why some are so against paper trading. I think it's a great way to work out your ideas, and see how they work.

Every system I have ever seen breaks even minus commissions and bid/ask spreads. So I like the idea that you are trading the market, but it takes very little brains to trade. Use all your brainpower to manage your money.

 

[zedDoubleNaught]

I've found in paper trades, my stops hold. In live trades, it's like they take on magnetic properties and attract the price. So, it's necessary to place them farther out and exit manually. Then there is extra slippage between the intended stop, when I actually click, and the price it actually gets filled at.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from zedDoubleNaught:

I've found in paper trades, my stops hold. In live trades, it's like they take on magnetic properties and attract the price. So, it's necessary to place them farther out and exit manually. Then there is extra slippage between the intended stop, when I actually click, and the price it actually gets filled at.

One day I was trying to position trade ES. I only had 2 long contracts on and my stop was way the hell down. It just so happened that it was a big down day, 18 or 20 points which was kind of unusual back then.

I got stopped out about 30 min before the close. I checked the reports and only 2 contracts (my 2) traded at the low of the day.

 

[JRL]

Quote from oldtime:

well, first of all, I've read through all the posts. Nobody is trying to discourage you from trading, it's just we all know how easy it is to blow up and those of us who have blown up feel at least if we can help somebody else it might make the whole thing a little less worthless.

If there's one mental edge that I may hold over other novice traders, it's that I'm completely aware and conscious of how easy it'd be to make one critical error that could cost you your whole account.

Like I said earlier, I basically experienced a personal Black Swan event back in 2007, and it altered me forever, and for the better, when it comes to money dealings.

 

[oldtime]

for example, I'm trying to learn forex so I'm just trading in a paper account. No matter what I do I can't lose money to save my soul.

I've tried everything. Adding to losers, taking small profits and then doubling up on the other side. Getting long, getting short, no matter what I do I make money. I suspect it has something to do with the dollar.

At anyrate, there is no way no how that I will ever trade forex with real money until I can produce a consistent string of losers.

 

[SnakeEYE]

Quote from JRL:



Like I said earlier, I basically experienced a personal Black Swan event back in 2007, and it altered me forever, and for the better, when it comes to money dealings.

now,it`s like bot vs bot,so be careful.i love to see how bots entrap each other.sometimes they go mad about each other sometimes come to agreement:eek:

 

[SteveNYC]

Quote from JRL:

Accounting background, read many books on finance, the market, trading, etc.

Have now been paper trading the CL using live market data for the last 10 days (via Strategy Runner w/ Global Futures). First time I've ever really done this, though have had an interest in it for seemingly ever.

By trading a single CL contract, I've been "making" gains in the thousands, every single day. Yes, this is PAPER trading, but it's live market data, and I'm basically in and out of trades fairly quickly (usually). I'd say that I'm using a pretty disciplined approach, not looking for home runs, but for simple, quick, in-and-out profit. The liquidity and volatility of the CL appears to make that goal fairly easy.

I'm not so naive to think that it's this easy when dealing with real money, but what exactly am I missing? What changes when you move from paper to cash (besides the obvious)?

Appreciate any thoughts and comments, weak attempts at humor are surely to follow, I get that.

Thanks much.

There is only one way to find out what the differences are.

GO LIVE!

Otherwise, it's all talk and more talk. No one really can tell you the true differences.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from SnakeEYE:

now,it`s like bot vs bot,so be careful.i love to see how bots entrap each other.sometimes they go mad about each other sometimes come to agreement:eek:

Do you ever read any of your posts the morning after? Because they actually make a lot of sense some time after 23:00 EST.