Question for the Athiests

[I am...]

Quote from stu:

Thanks for the civility which accompanies your question.
Unsure how you get the impression I devote lots of energy on this subject.
You ask what do I intend to gain, what are my motifs, what's my agenda.

Thinking about what you ask but without expending too much effort on the answer , I would say for some reason or other I have a selfish desire to understand better why people would readily accept preposterous religious claims in the face of all contradictory evidence. How come society will institute such an absurdity over itself, especially one that is so full of error and contradiction it can amount to no more than fantasy, but which is nevertheless blindly and perversely taken as given. That to me is just such cheap value.

I think it fair and legitimate ground to argue without need of gain, motif or agenda. It's nothing to do with some kind of satisfaction in the way you suggest , I just really do think the world could have been a far better place without carrying the religion monkey around on it's back.
It's not as if there’s no choice. Humanitarian values are used all the time to rise above all that anyway and are established without the layers of deceit which religion relishes in.
I think that would be so much more of an edifying experience all round. And I just like to say so that's all. Although others on this board do it better.
Do you think I shouldn't?

The very fact that humans pretend that human insincerity is not omnipresent is one of the factors that has always allowed human insincerity to flourish.

Humanitarian values are not established without layers of deciet.
A human is a layer of deciet.
A human is a layer of thought.
Thought decieves.
Thought hides its true nature.
Thought blocks out its sinister, deceptive nature and pretends to itself that it is sincere and good.

It is not only religious or spiritual thought that serves the tOy gOd.
Almost all human thought serves the tOy gOd.
A false thought opens up a Pandora's box to loose the tOy gOd.
The tOy gOd is father of all false thoughts...thinking without total knowledge.
By looking at the results, ie. the history of human evil, one can see that is true.

Its not a stretch to say that because the tOy gOd controls almost all of the thinking that is presumed to be "human", all the spiritual teachings of the past serve the tOy gOd.
It is not a stretch to say that almost all "divine" thought serves the tOy gOd.
So, when "divine" thought overrides "human" thought, the tOy gOd almost always sets up another layer of deception.

So,
"Jesus Christ" has been made to serve the tOy gOd.
"Buddha" has been made to serve the tOy gOd.
And,
Mohammed was a tool if what is written about him is in any way factual.

Thought informs all the books that have ever been written. The entire world wide web is informed by thought. All technology is informed by thought. In a single human, the possible combinations of thought, ideas and concepts can number in the trillions.

If human thought were something basically sincere with good and pure motives, life would be quite different.
However, thought is not something basically sincere with good and pure motives.
Thought is something insincere and deceptive with sinister motives.

Thought has trillions of layers of self deception.
A human is a layer of thought.
The tOy gOd lies to itself through layers of deceptive thought.

Christ!

 

[karol88]

Quote from stu:

Thanks for the civility which accompanies your question.

sure, let's all be civil here

Quote from stu:
Unsure how you get the impression I devote lots of energy on this subject.

I think I've seen you debating on almost every religious topic I clicked on this site
plus, it's not like there's no substance to the things you say....must have done some research

Quote from stu:
You ask what do I intend to gain, what are my motifs, what's my agenda.

Thinking about what you ask but without expending too much effort on the answer , I would say for some reason or other I have a selfish desire to understand better why people would readily accept preposterous religious claims in the face of all contradictory evidence.

maybe I can help you to understand it a little better: there are many different personalities, ways of thinking.
One's nature is to constantly question, others to have faith, follow rules, believe, they can't function without it.
There's no right personality, they are all unique and contribute something good (and bad) to our society.
It's the result, and only the result (how we feel and live our life), that counts.
If you want to understand why there are people who accept religion without question, look deep into them, see what drives them, and why they think differently than you. You will discover that for example things that make them happy don't make you happy, etc... instead, what you doing, is trying to apply YOUR logic to someone else's way of thinking...where for you it's ok to question, but for the other it's ok to obey...
God, nature, or whatever you believe, made us all different for a reason...every personality have it's place (despite that the ones who question everything don't understand how the rest can even function without questioning )

Quote from stu:

How come society will institute such an absurdity over itself, especially one that is so full of error and contradiction it can amount to no more than fantasy, but which is nevertheless blindly and perversely taken as given. That to me is just such cheap value.

this is again your point of view....not every walking human think like a stu

Quote from stu:

I think it fair and legitimate ground to argue without need of gain, motif or agenda. It's nothing to do with some kind of satisfaction in the way you suggest , I just really do think the world could have been a far better place without carrying the religion monkey around on it's back.
It's not as if there s no choice. Humanitarian values are used all the time to rise above all that anyway and are established without the layers of deceit which religion relishes in.
I think that would be so much more of an edifying experience all round. And I just like to say so that's all. Although others on this board do it better.
Do you think I shouldn't?

ok, sure, but shouldn't you target the victims rather than the preachers? also, why targeting them so aggressively? there's more power to an argument if you show some understanding to why a person falls for the false belief that you describe.
also why do you have a need to "save" people? I agree that religion has done many bad things, but some people must be kept in check...there are types of people (always will be, with our without religion) that need this type of authority to help them control the desire to do bad things to you for example
I don't think there ever been a time in history where people didn't look for some sort of belief....even if you erase all the existing religions, some people will find something else to believe in, look up and obey to...be it sun, money....or maybe even Stu?

enjoy the weekend!

 

[karol88]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

What is stu's motive?

Didn't you know?

He is on a mission from non God...

yup, I knew it

 

[volente_00]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

What is stu's motive?

Fear due to the trend of worldwide decline in atheism religion.

 

[stu]

Quote from karol88:

I think I've seen you debating on almost every religious topic I clicked on this site
plus, it's not like there's no substance to the things you say....must have done some research

That does not relate to devoting lots of energy to the subject. As I said, I'm interested so I post my opinions , that's all it is.
How long did it take for you to ask the question? Couple of minutes? A couple of minutes a few times per day even expanaded over years doesn't amout to devoting much energy.

Quote from karol88:

maybe I can help you to understand it a little better: there are many different personalities, ways of thinking.
One's nature is to constantly question, others to have faith, follow rules, believe, they can't function without it.
There's no right personality, they are all unique and contribute something good (and bad) to our society.
It's the result, and only the result (how we feel and live our life), that counts.
If you want to understand why there are people who accept religion without question, look deep into them, see what drives them, and why they think differently than you. You will discover that for example things that make them happy don't make you happy, etc... instead, what you doing, is trying to apply YOUR logic to someone else's way of thinking...where for you it's ok to question, but for the other it's ok to obey...
God, nature, or whatever you believe, made us all different for a reason...every personality have it's place (despite that the ones who question everything don't understand how the rest can even function without questioning

erm… the subject is not just about a personal faith. If someone believes in Goblins then that is fine. Nothing much to debate apart from perhaps discussing the sanity of it. What else is there when someone says they believe a Goblin God exists, apart from...yeah right.. but hey, myth and imagination make interesting friends up.

But to go on to say Goblins are true (and only by presupposition and pre-conclusion) , Goblins are real, Goblins are what children must be taught and told are true and real, Goblins decide what is good and bad in society and law to the extent that what is generally known to be good is made bad because the Goblin says so........ then that requires crtisism, scrutiny , argument and an alternative opinion and viewpoint to be brought against it. Just as it is with anything else.
Goblins by indoctrination into society at large, now that's " trying to apply YOUR logic to someone else's way of thinking". Yet you accuse me of doing so, simply for trying to point out religion has done that.

Excusing it all by suggesting the God Goblin is nothing other than personal belief, is not understanding the debate or the controversy of religion at all.

Quote from karol88:

this is again your point of view....not every walking human think like a stu

.....and I put my point of view forward. So your point is what exactly ? That I should not ?

Quote from karol88:

ok, sure, but shouldn't you target the victims rather than the preachers? also, why targeting them so aggressively? there's more power to an argument if you show some understanding to why a person falls for the false belief that you describe.
also why do you have a need to "save" people? I agree that religion has done many bad things, but some people must be kept in check...there are types of people (always will be, with our without religion) that need this type of authority to help them control the desire to do bad things to you for example
I don't think there ever been a time in history where people didn't look for some sort of belief....even if you erase all the existing religions, some people will find something else to believe in, look up and obey to...be it sun, money....or maybe even Stu?

enjoy the weekend!

You obviously enjoy forming your opinion by putting words in my mouth. You asked me and I already told you, I target no one and I have no intention of saving anyone from religion. I have no interest in convincing anyone . I respond to statements on what is often taken to be true or a given when I notice it is not so, or on comments on what people just believe but state is true . It's a public forum.
You’ve made quite a few categorical statements above against which perfectly reasonable circumstances exist to make what you state at least questionable if not altogether wrong. Are you better off for not hearing them? Do you wish no one to point out or discuss or argue the points ?
By the way, it’s the law itself and not Goblins which is the only real authority actively and actually helping control those that would do bad things to you or me and it didn’t necessitate a Goblin to think of it.

Your initial approach was to accuse me of being aggressive and to make the point that fervent non religious people are just as bad as religious ones. Yet you were quick to endorse a Troll’s post even though it is a characterization of all the things you were supposedly being critical of. Idiotically fervent in belief the Troll clearly devotes extreme amounts of effort with nearly 20,000 posts over a correspondingly short period, often telling everyone what they are doing, what mission they are on, what they believe, and attacking anyone who doesn’t agree.

Now why would YOU do that?

enjoy your whatever too!

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from volente_00:

Fear due to the trend of worldwide decline in atheism religion.

not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg

 

[killthesunshine]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Another follower playing follow the leader who is following non God...

LOL!

Do you speak to God? Do you speak for him?

Those voices in your head, is that MY God, or Oh My God!

 

[karol88]

Quote from stu:

That does not relate to devoting lots of energy to the subject. As I said, I'm interested so I post my opinions , that's all it is.
How long did it take for you to ask the question? Couple of minutes? A couple of minutes a few times per day even expanaded over years doesn't amout to devoting much energy.

and all I'm saying is that at least 9 out of 10 of your posts are about denying God, and it's not like ET is all about religion...you must be on a mission, right?
I'm interested what sparks such devotion? just logic?

Quote from stu:
erm the subject is not just about a personal faith. If someone believes in Goblins then that is fine. Nothing much to debate apart from perhaps discussing the sanity of it.

we can discuss the sanity of you, it's you who adds your opinion to anyone who even mentions God, it's like you have to make sure you correct them before the world falls apart. a little obsessed?.....wish I knew your background, because I have a feeling that you were a believer at one point.....although chances are you wouldn't admit if that was the case.

Quote from stu:
What else is there when someone says they believe a Goblin God exists, apart from...yeah right.. but hey, myth and imagination make interesting friends up.

But to go on to say Goblins are true (and only by presupposition and pre-conclusion) , Goblins are real, Goblins are what children must be taught and told are true and real, Goblins decide what is good and bad in society and law to the extent that what is generally known to be good is made bad because the Goblin says so........ then that requires crtisism, scrutiny , argument and an alternative opinion and viewpoint to be brought against it. Just as it is with anything else.
Goblins by indoctrination into society at large, now that's " trying to apply YOUR logic to someone else's way of thinking". Yet you accuse me of doing so, simply for trying to point out religion has done that.

sure, go ahead and argue that God doesn't exist, but yet you don't understand that some people simply need it. hey, if you're good without it, fine....but it wouldn't be too wise if you were going to argue with one who is giving you a great example of someones happy life. Same as if you told me how great you feel by not believing, how could I ever argue with that? Results matter.

Quote from stu:
....and I put my point of view forward. So your point is what exactly ? That I should not ?

some of your opinions go like this: "you're sick, because I say so"

Quote from stu:
You obviously enjoy forming your opinion by putting words in my mouth. You asked me and I already told you, I target no one and I have no intention of saving anyone from religion. I have no interest in convincing anyone .

I don't know what you do in real life, but on this forum you do target 'hardcore' believers...I'm asking why, and I'm not getting satisfying answers. I believe but I have no need or interest to change your way of thinking...my only interest is to understand you...that's why I got myself into this

Quote from stu:
You ve made quite a few categorical statements above against which perfectly reasonable circumstances exist to make what you state at least questionable if not altogether wrong. Are you better off for not hearing them? Do you wish no one to point out or discuss or argue the points ?

no, I want to hear them...would be foolish if I didn't

Quote from stu:

By the way, it s the law itself and not Goblins which is the only real authority actively and actually helping control those that would do bad things to you or me and it didn t necessitate a Goblin to think of it.

depends what bad things we're talking about...I don't need a church, in fact I'm not into any groups at all...yet I want to obey the law because good things have come out of it in the past....some things come to me naturally, but I have to restrain myself with other things. If I didn't believe and wanted to follow rules I would have been a bad girl on many occasions

Quote from stu:
Yet you were quick to endorse a Troll s post even though it is a characterization of all the things you were supposedly being critical of.

Idiotically fervent in belief the Troll clearly devotes extreme amounts of effort with nearly 20,000 posts over a correspondingly short period, often telling everyone what they are doing, what mission they are on, what they believe, and attacking anyone who doesn t agree.

Now why would YOU do that?

Stu, do you have ANY sense of humor? because I'm writing all this with a smile on my face....how about you? come on, relax, have fun!

Quote from stu:
enjoy your whatever too!

--thank you, right now I'm enjoying this post

 

[killthesunshine]

you got math wrong too..

"and all I'm saying is that at least 9 out of 10 of your posts are about denying God"


10 out of 10 posts are about exposing the distinct LACK of EVIDENCE for YOUR God.

Do you see the difference?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from karol88:

and all I'm saying is that at least 9 out of 10 of your posts are about denying God, and it's not like ET is all about religion...you must be on a mission, right?
I'm interested what sparks such devotion? just logic?



we can discuss the sanity of you, it's you who adds your opinion to anyone who even mentions God, it's like you have to make sure you correct them before the world falls apart. a little obsessed?.....wish I knew your background, because I have a feeling that you were a believer at one point.....although chances are you wouldn't admit if that was the case.

i am sure that stu would agree with me in saying that if you bible thumper would keep your primitive superstitions in your homes and churches we could care less. its when you come on a public forum trying to pass off primitive superstions as truth and fact that we are compelled to point out you are wrong.
you want this crap taught as science in our schools. what are those of us that know the truth to do? do we sit back and let you take over unchallenged?