There's that perverted logic again. I'll not waste anymore time today seeing as how you're not even trying.
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Question for the Athiests
- Thread starter athlonmank8
- Start date
Quote from Thunderdog:
Fair enough. As a little kid who was raised as a Catholic and who prayed before bedtime, I simply decided at around the age of 12 or so that it was nonsense. Aside from the death of a classmate at around that time, which may or may not have had a bearing (I honestly don't know but I raise the possibility because I put some thought after the fact into what "turned" me), there was no cathartic experience. There was no abuse. There was only what I can best desribe as...realization, for lack of a better word.
Though not apparent, what passes for religious education is actually a school in atheism. There is no way to learn about a gOd that does not exist, and constitutes a psychic attack. This kind of education wins by attrition...as the weary give up on the idea that anything can be learned about GoD. This should not be considered a failure, but rather a success. There are atheists who consider themselves as such, and there are atheists who consider themselves "believers". But what they believe in does not exist, so the net effect is the same. Religious education is mosty about how to attack yourself using self deception. As it supports the gOd of this world, it denies the existence of GoD in line with the intent of "the universe".
You graduated early. Vehn took 50 years. Wallet is next. Let us celebrate freedom and success. Learning how to imprison the Son of God is a phenomenal learning accomplishment. Congratulations! A prisoner with no desire to escape! Amazing!
Christ!
So you can't handle it when called on your Popeiness...
I'm quite familiar with the snits you get in when people are not willing to subscribe to your demands that people watch the video's you worship, or read the books you look upon as scripture of atheism...
I'm quite familiar with the snits you get in when people are not willing to subscribe to your demands that people watch the video's you worship, or read the books you look upon as scripture of atheism...
Quote from Thunderdog:
There's that perverted logic again. I'll not waste anymore time today seeing as how you're not even trying.
Quote from NeoRio1:
Faith is not truth. Faith is faith.
Thats the problem.
Don't you have faith in god I am?
Having faith and having truth is quite a different thing.
I don't have faith in the presence of my left hand because I KNOW of the presence of my left hand.
You cannot have faith in something being reality when you know it is reality and you cannot know something is reality when you only have faith that it is reality.
So what is it I am? Do you have faith that god exists or do you know god exists? Or if you don't want to answer honestly than you can go on looking like a living paradox.
Faith is generic. It functions as an ancient tool of magic...leading a powerful mind into fantasy made "real". As such, "the universe" is a product of faith in another gOd besides GoD *Our Father*. Everything that appears to have "substance" is actually the residual effect of an ancient faith. And it is held together and maintained by the "faithful". That is why I call "the universe" a kind of "religion". Faith is the "substance of things unseen, and the evidence of things hoped for". As such, "the universe" is a manifestation of faith. Believe it or not, you have faith in it, and are complicit in the faith that makes it.
The net effect of magic is that it confuses. Now you are dealing with the "substance" of faith...the metaphysical manifestation. And you look at your left arm and you say that you "know". No, you don't know. You have faith, and so you percieve. You see your arm because an ancient faith believed in your arm. Now you say your arms exist. No, they don't. But so long as you believe they exist, they can now be nailed to a cross, so-to-speak. There is a direct correlation between the ancient faith [magic] and your relative vulnerability. I call it "black" magic because as it confuses [darkens] the mind, it works to weaken your will, and trap you within its manifestations. Your will to transcend the appearances now appears to be "dead". You appear to have no faith at all, but in fact, your faith is great in the manifestation of an ancient faith.
To escape, begin by congratulating yourself on a "job" well done. Faith has well nigh completely fried your mind...destroying any evidence that it once had, or still has, power to free you from a self-made tomb.
It is faith in fantasy that has hurt you. It will be faith in truth that helps you. A spell has been cast upon your mind. There is now need to dispell previous notions about "reality". In a world of faith in fantasy, there is NO EVIDENCE of reality, therefore, no evidence of GoD as he is...and so, there is no evidence of you as you are. You are trapped in a kind of catch-22. Why should you have faith in what is presently not evident? But if you do not have faith, what is not evident will never manifest, in accord with the laws of faith.
This is how you are trapped. You are trapped by your own desire. Why? Because desire PRECEDES faith. Faith FOLLOWS desire. In this way, freedom is masked. You do not know that you are free because you are not aware of GoD's laws. GoD's law says you must be given what you ask for. You have asked for "the universe", against the will of GoD. And you have recieved what hurts you. And yet, your desire is still the key to your release. What you have asked for cannot be taken away from you so long as you desire to have it so.
So what it comes down to is this: What do you want?
Understand how to "ask" for what you want. You "ask" for what you truly desire when you put what you truly desire topmost in your mind. This is how you have "asked" for everything you have recieved so far, only, with a false desire. You truly desire to return your awareness to your "home"...the "Kingdom of God". When you recognize this desire, you will water it and let it grow. You will make it your purpose...your #1 intention. As it grows, you will cast off a desire that "the universe" be "real" instead of Reality. And you will be set free by your own leadership, with help from above.
Have faith in truth then, by desiring that the truth be true. Do you want what i am telling you to be true? It will not be true because you want it to be true. It is already true...now. Rather, you shall know it is true because you want it to be true. And here is the definition of true forgiveness: Let the truth be true, unmolested by rationalizations that would convince you otherwise.
I do not have faith that a "gOd" made "the universe" other than the power of my own mind...which is equal to the power of the true GoD...*Our Father*. I will qualify that by saying my previous faith in the reality of "the universe" [same as faith in gOd] is gradually and steadily being withdrawn, while my faith in my Self is gradually being invested with the Truth. I am "flat", or slightly bullish at this point, and becoming more bullish every day...can you tell? I do not claim to know. Knowledge is total and will be restored to me at the end of the "journey". Meanwhile, I have some faith that I am assisted by One who knows. So when I click "send message", I have a certain sense of certainty... a sense of knowing that what I am sending points to the truth.
If I sow truth, i will reap truth. I do feel as though I am reaping a better understanding of the big picture. I would rather make statements of faith than to have faith in statements of stupidity.
Christ!
Quote from NeoRio1:
So what is it I am? Do you have faith that god exists or do you know god exists? Or if you don't want to answer honestly than you can go on looking like a living paradox.
It is indeed a paradox. A paradox confuses. "The universe" confuses. It is supposed to confuse. It's like sitting among a group of elve's discussing existence. Elve's don't exist. So, if an elf's lips are moving, he must be lying.
Same with any "man" who speaks words of truth...words which point to truth. It's a paradox. The man is not the truth. The words are not the truth. Truth is *experienced* as words that point to truth are *practiced*. Otherwise, it is not.
I have faith because I, like all apparently trapped in illusions, have tossed away knowledge to have an experience of ignorance. Such is "the universe". My knowledge has been "saved" regardless, and will be restored as I reverse the laws of magic that led me into this labyrinth in the first place.
We talk about "faith". But we should really be talking about what we want. We are all experiencing what we want: the experience of "we", "us", "them", "those"...ect. Plurality, many, separate minds, separate wills, separate identities. This is magic. Diversity. Celebrate it. But also say good bye to it. It is temporary. Hasten its demise by desiring that it be let go from your belief in it. Hasten your return by desiring the totality of your knowledge back.
I am not so much a symbol of faith as i am a symbol of *desire*...a willingness to let the truth be true...a will to return "home". Faith is a "tool" made to hurt you. You are now afraid of it. As you desire, it is "converted" to help you. Likewise, everything faith made is "converted" on your way back home.
GoDspeeD
Christ!
You guys are really clueless unfortunately.
Quote from I am...:
Faith is generic. It functions as an ancient tool of magic...leading a powerful mind into fantasy made "real". As such, "the universe" is a product of faith in another gOd besides GoD *Our Father*. Everything that appears to have "substance" is actually the residual effect of an ancient faith. And it is held together and maintained by the "faithful". That is why I call "the universe" a kind of "religion". Faith is the "substance of things unseen, and the evidence of things hoped for". As such, "the universe" is a manifestation of faith. Believe it or not, you have faith in it, and are complicit in the faith that makes it.
The net effect of magic is that it confuses. Now you are dealing with the "substance" of faith...the metaphysical manifestation. And you look at your left arm and you say that you "know". No, you don't know. You have faith, and so you percieve. You see your arm because an ancient faith believed in your arm. Now you say your arms exist. No, they don't. But so long as you believe they exist, they can now be nailed to a cross, so-to-speak. There is a direct correlation between the ancient faith [magic] and your relative vulnerability. I call it "black" magic because as it confuses [darkens] the mind, it works to weaken your will, and trap you within its manifestations. Your will to transcend the appearances now appears to be "dead". You appear to have no faith at all, but in fact, your faith is great in the manifestation of an ancient faith.
To escape, begin by congratulating yourself on a "job" well done. Faith has well nigh completely fried your mind...destroying any evidence that it once had, or still has, power to free you from a self-made tomb.
It is faith in fantasy that has hurt you. It will be faith in truth that helps you. A spell has been cast upon your mind. There is now need to dispell previous notions about "reality". In a world of faith in fantasy, there is NO EVIDENCE of reality, therefore, no evidence of GoD as he is...and so, there is no evidence of you as you are. You are trapped in a kind of catch-22. Why should you have faith in what is presently not evident? But if you do not have faith, what is not evident will never manifest, in accord with the laws of faith.
This is how you are trapped. You are trapped by your own desire. Why? Because desire PRECEDES faith. Faith FOLLOWS desire. In this way, freedom is masked. You do not know that you are free because you are not aware of GoD's laws. GoD's law says you must be given what you ask for. You have asked for "the universe", against the will of GoD. And you have recieved what hurts you. And yet, your desire is still the key to your release. What you have asked for cannot be taken away from you so long as you desire to have it so.
So what it comes down to is this: What do you want?
Understand how to "ask" for what you want. You "ask" for what you truly desire when you put what you truly desire topmost in your mind. This is how you have "asked" for everything you have recieved so far, only, with a false desire. You truly desire to return your awareness to your "home"...the "Kingdom of God". When you recognize this desire, you will water it and let it grow. You will make it your purpose...your #1 intention. As it grows, you will cast off a desire that "the universe" be "real" instead of Reality. And you will be set free by your own leadership, with help from above.
Have faith in truth then, by desiring that the truth be true. Do you want what i am telling you to be true? It will not be true because you want it to be true. Rather, you shall know it is true because you want it to be true. And here is the definition of true forgiveness: Let the truth be true, unmolested by rationalizations that would convince you otherwise.
I do not have faith that a "gOd" made "the universe" other than the power of my own mind...which is equal to the power of the true GoD...*Our Father*. I will qualify that by saying my previous faith in the reality of "the universe" [same as faith in gOd] is gradually and steadily being withdrawn, while my faith in my Self is gradually being invested with the truth. I am "flat", or slightly bullish at this point, and becoming more bullish every day...can you tell? I do not claim to know. Knowledge is total. Meanwhile, I have some faith that I am assisted by One who knows. So when I click "send message", I have a certain sense of certainty... a sense of knowing that what I am sending points to the truth.
If I sow truth, i will reap truth. I do feel as though I am reaping a better understanding of the big picture.
Christ!
First of all I am your long paradoxical monologues only scares people off who are inexperienced with religion. I would try speaking in a way you would in a court room when arguing your subject. The longer you speak in this manner the longer I and the evil unbelievers believe that your merely using your long drawn out patterns to avoid giving straight answers.
I enjoyed your analysis of perception and now I will use it against you. You say a person doesn't know their own arm exists, they just perceive it so therefore they have faith in it. In essence this argument says that all things can only be perceived. Therefore all things that can be perceived can be held faithfully known. If truth and faith can only be found in perception than is it faithfully true that a mentally ill person can fly if they perceive themselves to be birds? Also sense you believe there to be a god than why isn't he as easy to see and perceive as our left arms?
"Have faith in truth then, by desiring that the truth be true. Do you want what i am telling you to be true? It will not be true because you want it to be true. Rather, you shall know it is true because you want it to be true. And here is the definition of true forgiveness: Let the truth be true, unmolested by rationalizations that would convince you otherwise." -Basically that entire paragraph claims anything can true as long as you perceive it to be true. Guess who else thinks like that I am? Narcissist's, pathological liars and people suffering from psychosis.
I am just for a second imagine if a person in a court room spoke like you. They would be charged with contempt after about three minutes. You cannot be charged with contempt on a forum but you ultimately paint contempt upon the religion you defend.
Believe what your happy believing but the more you stray away from straight answers the more you hurt your argument and your religion as a whole.