Question for some math gurus

[Angrycat]

Quote from lolatency:

I hate that this criticism is leveled on us quants -- not being able to multiply. Anyone born after 1975 used a calculator in middle/high school. Even our SAT was on a calculator. I don't know why they haven't changed the GRE, but...

Point is, we grew up on calculators. Sure, I can do it by hand, but I choose not to do it by hand because the TI-89 was invented and the theoretical basis for multiplication is well understood.

It's a real issue in math departments today -- no one does anything correctly without rereading, retesting, proof reading, code reviews, etc.

Ah well, I digress.

Awe....well, I was talking about people born in the '50's and '60's. Us oldies weren't allowed to use calculators until sometime during or after our first algebra course. They told us it was for our own good, but I suspect that the real reason was that calculators were big, heavy and needed a to be plugged into the wall.

In fairness, <i>most</i> of the quants I know can do computations in their heads, but one of them can't figure out the equity market value of a firm trading at $60 with 100MM shares outstanding. It's kind of cute because he's actually a brilliant mathematician with a math Ph.D. and everything. But, the lack of computational skills would have hindered him on the trading floor. By the time he banged everything into his calculator, the trade would be gone.

This gave me a chuckle: "the theoretical basis for multiplication is well understood."

Years after my last math class, I decided to refresh my calculus by reviewing the textbook I saved. I was stumped pretty quickly because I'd forgotten how to factor polynomials. This same friend's solution was a computer program that factored them for you. I was appalled. "But, I need to know how to factor it myself", I exclaimed. "Do you know why you need to factor?", he asked. I did. "Well, then you don't need to be the one actually doing the factoring."

 

[nukethewhales31]

Quote from Angrycat:

The best advice I can give you is if you have this much trouble with basic arithmetic, you shouldn't be trading.

if each trade is 10K and you expect 1% profit daily, then you will make $100 per day per trade. Multiply that by the number of expected trades.

But if you have that much trouble with arithmetic, why do you assume you are accurately assessing probability from which you derive your expected return?

actually ur wrong so maybe u urself should stop trading. wat a dick response and u dont even know what ur talking about... anyways its compounded over the days at day one youll have 10,000@1% youll make 100 so start day 2 youll have 10,100 so the next day youll make 101 next day is 10,201 in ur account so u will make 102.01 that day and it keep compounding for every day and thats the beauty of trading.

read up on compounding, internal risk reward, expected risk reward.

the formula to figure this out is FV=PV(1+R)^P

FV=future value
PV = present value
R= Your rate of return 1% you have to put it in as .01
P= period of time in this case 30 days

anyways good luck

 

[nukethewhales31]

Quote from navigateqd:

It's not necessary to learn MATH to handle trading technique, and it's a waste of time.

i actually cant believe i just read this.... seems like u dont even know what mathematics is and this is scary. To you is mathematics structure or language.. some people believe mathematics is the frame the universe is built on and we are slowly discovering the frame.. others believe mathematics is a language for us to understand the frame through our own creation.. the point tho is, is that either way u look at it the world is coded through mathematics. to understand the world you have to understand mathematics. take a you head away from your computer and pretending to know how to trade for a 1/4 of a sec and look around you.. its beautiful everything u can see was created or can be explained through the use of mathematics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics

anyways everyone should understand structure without structure ur just a bad gambler.

 

[sjfan]

No. He's not wrong. You are. Compounding is inappropriate here because of minimum tick size and the impossibility of trading fractional shares.

Did you just take a finance 101 class at a junior college? surely they don't let people with your level of grammar into a legitimate school right?

Quote from nukethewhales31:

actually ur wrong so maybe u urself should stop trading. wat a dick response and u dont even know what ur talking about... anyways its compounded over the days at day one youll have 10,000@1% youll make 100 so start day 2 youll have 10,100 so the next day youll make 101 next day is 10,201 in ur account so u will make 102.01 that day and it keep compounding for every day and thats the beauty of trading.

read up on compounding, internal risk reward, expected risk reward.

the formula to figure this out is FV=PV(1+R)^P

FV=future value
PV = present value
R= Your rate of return 1% you have to put it in as .01
P= period of time in this case 30 days

anyways good luck

 

[nukethewhales31]

Quote from sjfan:

No. He's not wrong. You are. Compounding is inappropriate here because of minimum tick size and the impossibility of trading fractional shares.

Did you just take a finance 101 class at a junior college? surely they don't let people with your level of grammar into a legitimate school right?

actually im a double major in finance and philosophy from penn state and there is alot more reason why compounding isnt inappropriate here than just fractional shares and minimum tick size also the fact that everyday he will not make 1% .. OH yeah and if u want to really get into the small details UR wrong as u can fractional shares or the equivalency depending on the vehicle u trade and the broker. EXAMPLE: BROKER oanda trading vehichle: currency pairs i can trade UNITS which other than being down to the penny can be perfectly adjsuted to the dollar... same thing with any share under a dollar..

and no i didnt take finance 101 its finance 401 that deals with compounding but seeing as how u didnt go to a college for finance or even if u did business level u probably did finance 101A which is at best 1/3 of the information you would learn from finance 401..

I even doubt u went to college because in your junior year ur in 300 level courses 300 means they are higher courses that 100's.. 100's are prep courses.. so congrats either u never made it up there in the 300's or u never went anyways.

oh yeah and saying compounding isnt perfect so therefore lets use simple simple interest calculation.. is widening your error and even if compounding doesnt put out the EXACT answer its alot better than using simple interest calculations.

my attack on him was because he wrote .. if u have trouble with math.. then maybe you shouldnt be trading.

thats a douchebag thing to say thats the reason i was testy in my post u just backed an elitest who attacked a newbie for asking a simple question who didnt even say he was trading.. so u yourself can now be considered in my eyes as a douchebag. congrats.

 

[sjfan]

Good thing I went to the business school of that other school in PA that's not penn "state".

And, btw, I'm with a very large asset manager in philly that regularly hire interns from schools around here; I'll be sure to pose a compounding problem.

Point stand, in general, compounding is not appropriate; the ability to trade fractional shares is the exception, rather than the rule; even so, there's a min quanta for that fraction.

Quote from nukethewhales31:

actually im a double major in finance and philosophy from penn state and there is alot more reason why compounding isnt inappropriate here than just fractional shares and minimum tick size also the fact that everyday he will not make 1% .. OH yeah and if u want to really get into the small details UR wrong as u can fractional shares or the equivalency depending on the vehicle u trade and the broker. EXAMPLE: BROKER oanda trading vehichle: currency pairs i can trade UNITS which other than being down to the penny can be perfectly adjsuted to the dollar... same thing with any share under a dollar..

and no i didnt take finance 101 its finance 401 that deals with compounding but seeing as how u didnt go to a college for finance or even if u did business level u probably did finance 101A which is at best 1/3 of the information you would learn from finance 401..

I even doubt u went to college because in your junior year ur in 300 level courses 300 means they are higher courses that 100's.. 100's are prep courses.. so congrats either u never made it up there in the 300's or u never went anyways.

oh yeah and saying compounding isnt perfect so therefore lets use simple simple interest calculation.. is widening your error and even if compounding doesnt put out the EXACT answer its alot better than using simple interest calculations.

 

[nukethewhales31]

Quote from sjfan:

Good thing I went to the business school of that other school in PA that's not penn "state".

And, btw, I'm with a very large asset manager in philly that regularly hire interns from schools around here; I'll be sure to pose a compounding problem.

Point stand, in general, compounding is not appropriate; the ability to trade fractional shares is the exception, rather than the rule; even so, there's a min quanta for that fraction.

if your implying the fact that penn state isnt up to snuff because its a state school your an idiot.. penn state smeal school of business is ranked 32 in the nation.. and some people who get accepted into places like university of penn cant pay the 54k price tag a year

i doubt u are a large asset manager in philly. ur just a guy who can be anyone he wants to be on an electronic forum board the same as a computer geek that can talk about how leet his mix of martial arts skill is on a electronic martial arts forum.

and how is fractional share the exception ... do you have numbers??? OF course u dont.. Just like u dont have proof that u went to college.. just like u dont have proof ur an asset manager.. which would be surprising if u were cause u dont know which causes the most error in this situation and can pick the best result. if anything by asset manager u mean ur a financial planner ... congrats ur a salesman.

 

[sjfan]

And in case you feel like bringing it up, Penn (not state) has plenty of knuckleheads and idiots like everywhere else in the world; but none writes with syntax and grammar as appalling as yours.

Quote from sjfan:

 

[sjfan]

Come by 18th and chestnut; I'll buy you a cup of coffee.

I have an undergraduate degree in computer science and enjoy the topic. It was a lighthearted banter on some technical matter with nitro. Big whoop.

And no, asset manager does not equal to financial planner. Institutional buy side asset manager (like blackrock, one of our peers), run multi billion dollar institutional portfolios.

As far as fractional shares are rare, do you need a number? find me a broker who will trade shares, futures, options contracts, etc in 0.3333 unit. Other than I think one, who specializes in retirement accounts and DRIPs, there are none.... because of minimum transaction size.

Quote from nukethewhales31:


i doubt u are a large asset manager in philly. ur just a guy who can be anyone he wants to be on an electronic forum board the same as a computer geek that can talk about how leet his mix of martial arts skill is on a electronic martial arts forum.

and how is fractional share the exception ... do you have numbers??? OF course u dont.. Just like u dont have proof that u went to college.. just like u dont have proof ur an asset manager.. which would be surprising if u were cause u dont know which causes the most error in this situation and can pick the best result. if anything by asset manager u mean ur a financial planner ... congrats ur a salesman.

 

[nukethewhales31]

Quote from sjfan:


I have an undergraduate degree in computer science and enjoy the topic.

Institutional buy side asset manager (like blackrock, one of our peers), run multi billion dollar institutional portfolios.

As far as fractional shares are rare, do you need a number? find me a broker who will trade shares, futures, options contracts, etc in 0.3333 unit. Other than I think one, who specializes in retirement accounts and DRIPs, there are none.... because of minimum transaction size.

yeah figured u were not finance... whats the name of the firm u work for in philly

ill be there on the 22nd i think 18th and chestnut i have to be in philly anyways