- Question about Volatility when selling premium?

Quote from riskarb:

When trading options as a profession, you quickly align yourself in one of two camps: long or short gamma, - or + expectation. The long gamma crowd typically arise from the floor, a vestige of firm trading in which there was a edict to go home net long. This methodology works just fine when there is the +expectation of a weekly paycheck, when the -expectation is backed by a trading firm.

Best,
riskarb [/B]

Do the two have to be mutually exclusive? I'm not sure I understand why that would have to be the case. It would seem to me that one's overall option trading portfolio could have both long gamma and short gamma trades. Indexes and/or stocks with relatively high IV could be more conducive to short gamma, while individual names with relatively low IVs and the expectation of significant moves would be better suited for long gamma.

It just seems to me that to blend both long gamma and short gamma trades together makes sense from a portfolio diversification viewpoint. In an "investment" portfolio one blends stocks with bonds, and even within stocks value with growth to increase risk-adjusted returns and have components with negative correlation. It would seem to me the same principle would hold with an option trading book. Have some positive delta trades, some neutral, some negative. Have some long gamma and vega, and some short gamma and vega. That way something is always bound to be working out right.
 
Quote from Cutten:

Simple solution - start a "premium selling" thread, with no mudslinging allowed.

I personally would be interested in hearing about short premium strategies.

i second that.
 
One of my favorite short gamma trades is to look for very strong or weak trending stocks and buy or sell the underlying and sell the straddle. I really like the juice you can collect on these plays because you can make a lot of money if the stock continues in the trend or if it starts to consolidate. I find that selling premium allows me to hold a position better then just taking an outright long and short position and setting tight stops. The short premium gives you some room to hold onto a very strong or weak stock without getting shaken out.

I don't like to sell premium on choppy stocks or stocks that are range bound because I find they are way too unpredictable to trade the gamma.

Of course I like to sell expensive vega on wingspreads. Not a lot of expensive vega in this environment but there are plays out there. And they tend to work very well, especially if you are a good gamma trader.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

One of my favorite short gamma trades is to look for very strong or weak trending stocks and buy or sell the underlying and sell the straddle. I really like the juice you can collect on these plays because you can make a lot of money if the stock continues in the trend or if it starts to consolidate. I find that selling premium allows me to hold a position better then just taking an outright long and short position and setting tight stops. The short premium gives you some room to hold onto a very strong or weak stock without getting shaken out.

Yes, I do this quite a bit too, but prefer strangles.

One of my favored positions right now is the N225 contract traded in Osaka. I'm scalping w/ a long bias and keep the strangle working. I'm expecting the upside trend to remain in place for some time, and at the worst to see some sideways action.

Had a similar position on NTES last couple of weeks but volatility last week was not to my liking. Fortunately Bear Stearns upgraded on Friday and handed me an exit door. :p
 
Quote from BlueHorseshoe:

Yes, I do this quite a bit too.

One of my favored positions right now is the N225 contract traded in Osaka. I'm scalping w/ a long bias and keep the straddle working. I'm expecting the upside trend to remain in place for some time, and at the worst to see some sideways action.

Had a similar position on NTES last couple of weeks but volatility last week was not to my liking. Fortunately Bear Stearns upgraded on Friday and handed me an exit door. :p

Yeah I think selling premium on a nice upward sloping stock or index is really a great play. You have so many things working for you. You have a slow decrease in vol, you have a lot of slow moving and grinding action, and you have a very predictable pattern to trade off of.

On indexes I like to enter on sharp pullbacks after you get a spike in VOL.
 
Quote from riskarb:

With respect to the "JohnK" post, I will only add that anyone who's survived in this business has paid his/her dues many times over, and to ridicule or demand hand-holding is really a poor way to approach experienced traders for direction or advice.

There is no formal mentorship, no union, no on-the-job training available to the retail/upstairs options trader -- you either learn, or burn.

Saturnine, great thread, especially enjoyed your analogies w.r.t. wingspreads. To that end, I will add my $.02 regarding positive expectation and scale of LR vs. UR strategies.

When trading options as a profession, you quickly align yourself in one of two camps: long or short gamma, - or + expectation. The long gamma crowd typically arise from the floor, a vestige of firm trading in which there was a edict to go home net long. This methodology works just fine when there is the +expectation of a weekly paycheck, when the -expectation is backed by a trading firm.

Short gamma traders are an inscrutable bunch... they enter the game with one overriding concern, income production. The tend to view their trading as leveraged-FI terms -- consistent income generation, to eschew home-runs for on-base %.

For me, long gamma trading is a dormant, deeply-recessive gene. I can't for the life of me enter into a strategy that entails a negative expectation, which includes long gamma scalping as well as equity/futures daytrading. Not to say that it cannot be profoundly profitable, it's just an anathema to my trading, always has been.

Yes, I trade URO-positions, I am net short premium! Every single day of the year, and have been for the last 20. I've survived '87, '91 and 9/11. My largest account trades net long gamma, but it's in a public fund and it's required by charter. I only trade long-gamma as portfolio protection, never for a distinct vega play.

For me, the argument to trade wingspread vs. URO is a easy choice, as the outlook for each position w.r.t. position size and scale are simple to dissect.

Using daily theta, or a risk-adjusted parm, such as gamma/theta when comparing the payoff on a long butterfly vs. frontspread or short straddle/strangle, it becomes quickly apparent that the butterfly trade will require a large contract exposure to equate to the daily decay curve of a single short straddle. If I were to risk $20k in debit on a call butterfly, why should I be terrified of trading a single NDX straddle which has the equivalent decay profile and P&L distribution under 2-3 Sigma?

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, it's Friday and I should leave it here...

Best,
riskarb


No,I dont want anyone to hold my hand.The point I am trying to make is that sometimes you get the feeling that people dont want newbies to trade options.

It starts with the brokers,you have to lie about your experience just so you can open an account!Then you waste money on the various books out there"buy calls buy puts".

I know that you know that the money to be made in options is in selling premium,but the doom and gloom that surrounds this subject is spine chilling!You have a broker who will encourage you to sell covered calls in your IRA account(what is an IRA account btw?I'm not from the US)but mention that you want to sell a naked put which is more or less the same thing and,my God!It's like someone just shoved a 12 inch dick up their arse!As for naked calls,well dont even go there.

I dont know,perhaps the pro's at ET dont like to encourage newbies to sell premium because they genuinely would feel guilty if he became unstuck.I can underatand that,but you have to start somewhere and my feelings with options is that there is no"shallow end",from the beginning you are more or less in at the deep end and without the proper guidance you are going to drown.

No riskarb,I dont want you to hold my hand.I am an intelligent person I have travelled the world North South East and West,I speak 4 languages.My point being,if you were to email me and ask my advice about visiting a country that I knew well,I would genuinely try and point out the good things and the bad.Iwould try to show you things that you would never find in a travel Guide Book,and thats what I mean about options trading.That's not holding hands,it's just about one human being trying to share his knowledge!

Finally,after all this rambling,can I just say I am a seeker of knowledge,yes even forbidden knowledge.
 
Quote from lindq:

Listen carefully to the voice of experience. Do NOT sell naked just to collect a little premium, ESPECIALLY if you are new to options. A couple bad trades can kill months of struggle, and possibly your equity. You don't think it will happen, but it will. Why? Because shit happens, when you least expect it.

Have an exit plan ahead of time, for when things go bad. This will help avoid feeling anxious and acting irrationally. This will remove emotion and that feeling of panic. Do not get overexposed. At some stage things will go bad when you least expect it. Selling OTM premium is a viable strategy, but very different from trading stocks. Allocate correctly and have appropriate stops. I believe a 10-25% annual return is achievable and realistic. Those shooting for a double have their expectations set too high imo.
 
Quote from riskarb:

Short gamma traders...enter the game with one overriding concern, income production. The tend to view their trading as leveraged-FI terms -- consistent income generation, to eschew home-runs for on-base %.

Well, that's me. I need the income and can't stand a negative expectation.

However, I am acronym-challenged.

Riskarb: what do you mean by LR, UR, URO and FI?
 
Quote from Maverick74:

On indexes I like to enter on sharp pullbacks after you get a spike in VOL.

Like we got thursday with the QQQ? :D I do too, has worked well for me so far, except I don't sell premium (long calls right now) because my account is too small, I hope to start in the future though
 
Partial Quote from omcate:

Exactly. Why bother ? :D



The key words are broad based index options. Writing naked Puts/Calls on individual stock or options on future are too exciting for an old and poor guy like me. :D



:D

Just my two cents.

:p :p :p

======================
Probably will not mean any thing to you at first;
like M. Steinhardt comment of looking at the other side of the trade also.

To put it simple,
like to study & make notes on index options to the degree that ;
occasional selling to close long index calls in a bull market makes profitable sense.

This buyer knows that the seller has the edge in a sideways trend.[also called rangebound market].
 
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