Question About Animals In Christianity

[Aapex]

Quote from vhehn:

thanks been there done that. was a christian for 50 years untill i became enlightened.

"You may have an opinion that a man is inspired, but you cannot prove it, nor can you have any proof of it yourself, because you cannot see into his mind in order to know how he comes by his thoughts; and the same is the case with the word revelation. There can be no evidence of such a thing, for you can no more prove revelation than you can prove what another man dreams of, neither can he prove it himself.

"It is often said in the Bible that God spake unto Moses, but how do you know that God spake unto Moses? Because, you will say, the Bible says so. The Koran says, that God spake unto Mahomet, do you believe that too? No.

"Why not? Because, you will say, you do not believe it; and so because you do, and because you don't is all the reason you can give for believing or disbelieving except that you will say that Mahomet was an impostor. And how do you know Moses was not an impostor?

Again you are choosing to speak for me. You have just contridicted your own argument.

because you cannot see into his mind in order to know how he comes by his thoughts;

and yet you know mine?

thanks been there done that. was a christian for 50 years untill i became enlightened.

Heb 6:4 - "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

so you see according to Scripture you were never really a Christian. For if you were it would be impossible not to be one or to turn away from it. God has already predestined in his sovernty who would be saved based upon his own choosing. Your only revealling your falleness and inability to be saved. According to Scripture you will die in your sins.

To the Christian who perserveres:

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[d] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,[e] 24 because


“ All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man[f] as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the LORD endures forever.”[g]


Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

1 Peter 1:22-25

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Aapex:

Again you are choosing to speak for me. You have just contridicted your own argument.

because you cannot see into his mind in order to know how he comes by his thoughts;

and yet you know mine?

i dont know your mind. i simply know you are trying to convince us that a book of fables is the word of god.

 

[Aapex]

Quote from vhehn:

modern scholorship is changing many old ideas in the bible. a small word correction does make a big difference.

http://watch.pair.com/scriptures.html
TABLES OF COMPARISON

OF SELECTED SCRIPTURES

AFFECTING FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINES

OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH



KING JAMES VERSION

ENGLISH REVISED VERSION

NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE

NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION

NEW KING JAMES VERSION






The categories of tables were selected to represent the most significant areas of change in modern translations which affect fundamental Christian doctrine. This listing is only a portion of the overwhelming number of alterations to essential doctrines.



1. THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men." (Philippians 2:5-7)

Modifications to key verses such as this one and others containing titles of the Lord Jesus Christ denigrate the doctrine of His deity.
(table)
8. JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE

"And Philip said, ‘If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." (Acts 8:37)
New versions omit this verse and alter others to change justification by faith to salvation through works. Many versions delete "by himself" in Hebrews 1:3 to permit faith in another mediator, such as Mary. The omission of "on me" in John 6:47 allows any belief.

(table)

Again you are not speaking on behalf of Reformed Christians that hold to Sola Scriptura your quoting for New Bible translations by non-Christians who do not represent US.

Why don't you deal with what I posted on the Holy Scriptures. That is what we believe. You want to argue off topic. I'm simply stating what Reform Christians Believe. That's it.

I'm not trying to explain what others believe. I can only state that that is NOT what we as Reform Christians believe.

We do not believe in the Talmud or any other thing that you have posted in your own defense. You obviously are an atheist and that is your belief and you have explained why you believe what you believe. That is fine. You have every right to believe what you believe. However, make sure that you understand what I believe before you start quoting wide general comments about Roman Catholosism and Judiasm. WE are not one in the same.

 

[Aapex]

Quote from vhehn:

i dont know your mind. i simply know you are trying to convince us that a book of fables is the word of god.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
All I did was state what we as Reformed Chirstians believe.

If you disagree with it that is your right to do so.
I can not convience you of anything because your mind is already set against it.

This was supposed to be a response to the original posters question about what the Bible says about animals and whether or not they have souls?

The Biblical response to that question was not grounds for attacking and persecuting Christians of any denomination or background. Instead you have turned this into a attack against Christians and the Bible.

Whatever happend to tolerance?

Oh, I know - it does not apply to us Christians.
It only applies to those that believe what you believe - right?
You don't know your history conscerning the Bible.
You don't understand the text of Scripture and you say that you used to be a Christian. You assume to have all knowlede and understanding but you lack true knowledge that begins with the understanding of God.

Regardless what man does in attempt to discredit, deny, or resist God , God will prevail in the end and all those that say "oh, the Bible is nonsense will wish that they actually took the time to read and study Scripture instead of theorizing and rationalizing it away as just a fictitious book of stories.

You are obviously lost and no amount of convincing will change that. Only God can change the heart. You are powerless to save yourself. You are dead in your sins. Unless you seek Christ and live you will be forever lost. According to Scripture.

Your fight is not with me , its with the God of the Bible.

 

[Aapex]

IS THE BIBLE MYTH?

If I’ve heard it once I’ve heard it a million times, “You can’t take the Bible literally.” You often hear people say that although it may be inspirational, it’s also full of myths and fables. Well, is this really true?



If the Bible is really full of myths and fables, it would certainly be appropriate to read it as such. However, the simple fact is that the Bible certainly doesn’t fit that category.



For one thing, the biblical writers flatly denied teaching mythology. For example, Peter said, “We didn’t follow cleverly devised tales when we told you about the power and coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His Majesty” (2 Pet. 1:16). In fact, the Apostle Paul urged Timothy to teach his congregation to disregard mythology (1 Tim. 1:4). He warned that a time was coming when people would “turn away their ears from the truth and turn aside to mythology” (2 Tim. 4:4).



Besides all of this, the myths of the ancient world were never based on solid historical fact. They were stories invented to explain such recurring phenomena like the changing of the seasons or the motion of the stars. The events recorded in the Scripture, on the other hand, are firmly rooted in history. By way of illustration, it is an accepted historical fact that Israel became a nation after the exodus from Egypt. Later, Israel became a monarchy, David and Solomon really lived, and on and on and on. It is also a historical fact that Jesus was a Jew who preached about God the Father, who claimed to be God, worked miracles, and was crucified during Pilate’s reign. All of this is, in fact, literal history.



In addition, the supernatural aspects of Scripture are presented just as matter-of-factly as the rest. And indeed, the most stupendous miracle recorded in the Bible, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, has been authenticated by numerous scholarly studies including the late great Dr. Simon Greenleaf. Dr. Greenleaf was the Royal Professor of Legal Evidences at Harvard University. He was goaded by his students into looking at the evidences for the resurrection. After a thorough examination he came back and said, “There is not a single unbiased juror in the world who would ever look at the evidence and deny it. Dr. Simon Greenleaf became a Christian. The Bible is not mythology and was never meant to be read as such.

 

[Aapex]

how do we know that the bible is the word of god?



If I’ve heard it once I’ve probably heard it a 1000 times! Some Christian comes up to me and says, “The Bible says!!…. So what?!… Who says what the Bible says is true in the first place?”



First, we know that the Bible is God’s Word because no less an authority than Jesus Christ Himself says it is. Sounds like circular reasoning, right?



Not so fast, the New Testament documents are actually very reliable historically. The authors of the New Testament were either eyewitnesses to the life of Christ, or were close associates of eyewitnesses. And so they give a clear testimony as to the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus not only claimed to be God, but He proved His claim through [1] the fulfillment of messianic prophecy, [2] the performance of miracles, and ultimately and most succinctly through His historically verifiable resurrection from the dead.



If you can prove that Jesus is God in human flesh, whatever He says is truth. And what does Jesus say concerning the bible? He says that it is the very Word of God! As to the Old Testament, Jesus said that the “Scriptures cannot be broken,” and therefore they are sufficient, authoritative, and inspired. In fact, he went on to promise that the Bible will guide not only his apostles, but all of us in the truth — the truth he was talking about is not subjective truth, but objective verifiable truth.



Now as I’ve shown inductively, Jesus Christ Himself, God incarnate, testifies not only to Scripture’s authority (Matt. 22:43), but to its reliability (Matt. 26:54), to its sufficiency (Luke 16:31), and finally to its finality (Matt. 4:4,7,10). Bottom line: The living Word (Jesus) bears testimony to the Written Word (the Bible).



The truth is, demonstrating that the Bible is the Word of God is not all that difficult. Of course you have to be dealing with someone who is an open minded person. If someone has already made up his mind and doesn’t want to be confused with the facts, you’re never going to be able to talk him into the kingdom. Only the Holy Spirit can truly open the heart.

 

[Aapex]

the RELIABILITY OF THE BIBLE



Obviously, a vast amount of time has passed since the Bible was first penned. So, how do we know that the Bible is reliable?



The Bible is a historical document. Interestingly enough, if you subject it to the same tests that you subject other historical documents to, you’ll discover that the Bible proves itself to be far superior to any other ancient writing.



First, let’s look at the New Testament which, incidentally, was originally written in the Greek language between 50 and 100 A.D. Although we don’t have the original autographs, there are presently some 5,000 Greek manuscripts in existence, with as many as 25,000 more copies. Just as amazing is the fact that the earliest manuscripts can be dated back as far as 120 A.D. This is tremendous when you consider that only seven of Plato’s manuscripts are in existence today — and there’s a 1,300-year gap which separates the earliest copy from the original writing! Equally amazing is another fact; and that is, that the New Testament has been virtually unaltered. This has been demonstrated by scholars who have compared the earliest written manuscripts with manuscripts written centuries later. And remember, the accounts in the New Testament were recorded directly by eyewitnesses, (or by those who were associated with them) and in fact had close contact with the events themselves.



But what about the Old Testament? Let’s take a quick look at one of the most incredible finds of the century — the Dead Sea Scrolls. With the discovery of these manuscripts at Qumran in 1946, texts were found that were about 1,000 years older than any previously-known Old Testament manuscript. And when compared with the later texts, these writings proved to be virtually identical.



With every turn of the archaeologist’s spade, we see further evidence of Scripture’s trustworthiness. Such renowned and historical scholars as William Albright and Sir Frederick Kenyon have clearly testified that the findings of archaeology have served to underscore the authenticity of the Bible. Well, is the Bible reliable? I believe the evidence speaks for itself. And with that, I rest my case.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Aapex:

Why don't you deal with what I posted on the Holy Scriptures. That is what we believe. You want to argue off topic. I'm simply stating what Reform Christians Believe. That's it.

what calvinists believe has no value to the basis of truth. calvinists are considered to be on the lunatic fringe of christianity.
what value do you think there is in sprouting bible verses to someone who has determined that the bible is a book of fables? you might as well be sprouting mother goose fairy tales and trying to convince me they are true.

 

[Aapex]

reliability of the bible manuscripts



Non-Christians, (skeptics like New Agers or Mormons) claim that in the process of copying Scripture the text of the Bible was corrupted. Is this really true?



Suppose you wrote an essay and asked five friends to copy it. Each of them in turn asked five more friends to do the same — kind of like a chain letter. By the fifth “generation,” you would have approximately four thousand copies. Now, obviously, in the process, some people are going to make some copying errors. The first five people to copy it would make mistakes, and then most of the people who copy from them will make some more mistakes. Eventually you’d have thousands of copies and all of them flawed.



Sounds pretty bad, right? But hold on. Your five friends might make mistakes, but they wouldn’t all make the same mistakes. If you compared all of the copies, you would find that one group contained the same mistake while the other four did not — which of course, would make it easy to tell the copies from the original. Not only that, but most of the mistakes would be obvious — things like misspelled words or words that were accidentally omitted. Anyone looking at all four thousand copies would have no trouble figuring out which was the original.



That’s essentially the same situation with the Bible. We’ve got thousands of copies of the Bible in its original language, and scholars who have studied them have been able to classify them into groups and in most cases determine what the original documents actually said. The few cases which are still debated by scholars really don’t affect the basic message of the Bible at all.



In fact, interestingly enough when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered at Qumran, they predated the earliest extant text — the Masoretic text by almost one thousand years — yet in spite of this vast span of time, there was no substantive difference at all…..In fact, in looking at Isaiah 53 there were only 17 changes between the Masoretic text and those found at Qumran — 10 involved spelling, 4 style and 3 involved the Hebrew letters for the word light in verse 11. However, none of these differences were substantive — God has indeed preserved His Word.

 

[Aapex]

THE EVIDENCE FOR CHRIST’S RESURRECTION



It’s often said that the validity of Christianity rests upon the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But how do we know Jesus rose from the dead?

As Paul noted in 1 Corinthians 15:14, if Christ did not rise from the dead then our preaching and our faith are useless. We must therefore be prepared to demonstrate that Christ’s resurrection was an event that occurred in space and time — that it was in fact historical, and not mythological (cf. 2 Pet. 1:16). The importance of this event cannot be minimized as Jesus Himself proclaimed that His resurrection would prove His power over death, and thus His deity (John 2:18-22).

Of the variety of evidence we have available, none is more compelling than the fact that over five hundred individuals saw Jesus (1 Cor. 15:6) during a 40-day period following His death and burial (Acts 1:3). In fact, the Apostles appealed to Christ’s resurrection as proof for the truth of the gospel (Acts 17:18, 31). The historical evidence for the resurrection is so compelling that the famed Harvard law professor, Simon Greenleaf, concluded that any cross-examination of the eyewitness testimonies recorded in Scripture will result in “an undoubting conviction of their integrity, ability, and truth.”

And even as we consider alternative explanations, reason drives us back to the conclusion that Christ rose from the dead. We know that the Romans had no intentions of stealing Christ’s body because the last thing they wanted was any turmoil that was sure to follow such an event. The Jewish religious leaders would also have no motive in stealing the body since that would only stir up the very movement they tried to crush. And certainly, the disciples could not have stolen the body; after all, would anyone really suffer and die for a cause that they knew to be a lie? It is conceivable that someone may die for the truth, but inconceivable that hundred’s of his follower’s would, in fact, be willing to die for what they knew to be a lie.

All this leads us to only one possibility — that Jesus indeed rose from the dead, and lives to be our Lord and our Savior (cf. Rev. 1:18)!