Putin screws Shell

[newbunch]

Quote from BlueStreek:

america is just more subtle in its corruption....more sophisticated....but the results are the same....most of the wealth finds its way to a "select minority" of the population.....america is the most corrupt country in the world.....its tools are just more covert in nature.....so.....no you don`t have blatant bribes.....but you have senators getting preferential stock options on ipo`s before they are released to the public all the time.......where they get these options at 12.00 and sell them the day of the ipo for 56.00.....happens all the time-----and you wonder why they vote the way they do on legislation-----just a more subtle form of bribery....same result----a select few control the majority of the wealth of the country and the world.

I don't think the USA is as bad as you say, but anybody who thinks it is true capitalism or "fair" is just naive.

As capitalists, people think we are pro-business. We capitalist are pro-business, but we are against the lobbying, bribing, and manipulation of government by business interests. We are also against lobbying, bribing, and manipulation done by labor union, environmental groups, etc.

"Government that governs least governs best."

 

[toc]

'I don't think the USA is as bad as you say'

I am a firm believer in LEADERSHIP chalking the course of any nation.......be it USSR under Breznev, then Gorbachov, Yeltsin and now Putin or US under Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton and now 'the best of the best' George Junior. After G Jr. and his team are gone from the office, US will soon become a different nation than a picture of crumbling superpower getting corrupt.

There is absolutley NO comparision between Russia and USA, and now that we know the truth, there should NOT have been any between SU and US. On the otherhand, SU was kept going by the energy prices bonanza of the 1970s. As soon as Afgan war and Reagan's arms race started demanding more cash, the structure was exposed and forced to change. The Russians themselves brought their country down sinking the economy by 80% of the original, while US just kept on increasing the pressure with a smirk on their face.

What is the real force behind Russia...........if Jim Rogers and past cyclical theories are right, then energy prices will be high until 2015-2018 and that will extend the clock of Russia to 2030 if rest remains the same, i.e. no major war etc. Guess they have a head start of 20 years or so, to develop some industry other than commodities which proves to be the constant bread winner at all times and keeps the Russians busy in working rather than joining Mafia and sending the loot to the Swiss banks. Leech mentality both over their own country and over the world would not work as it has not worked for any in the past.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from Copernicus:

One must make a distinction between the "wild East" of Russia and its former Russian speaking territories, and the Central European countries which are already part of the EU (Poland, Czech+Slovak Republics and Hungary). In these countries business is booming and people are known to have come back alive and well managing to keep $$ earned over there.

Its funny how countries will shape themselves up once they have a goal they need to meet/achieve.

Getting back on the subject of Russia, Putin and his former East German KGB buddies have been pushing for this natural gas pipeline going through the Baltic Sea to the west. Now this is straight out of Lenin's doctrines, Russians are selling the West, the rope that they will eventually hang on...

Very good point. There is a huge difference between Russia and the rest of the states in Eastern Europe? Just because they once were satellites of Moscow does not mean that the mentallity of the people are the same.
Mexico and US for example are part of North America yet there are several subtle difference between the two.

 

[saxon22]

Quote from toc:

'I don't think the USA is as bad as you say'

I am a firm believer in LEADERSHIP chalking the course of any nation.......be it USSR under Breznev, then Gorbachov, Yeltsin and now Putin or US under Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton and now 'the best of the best' George Junior. After G Jr. and his team are gone from the office, US will soon become a different nation than a picture of crumbling superpower getting corrupt.

There is absolutley NO comparision between Russia and USA, and now that we know the truth, there should NOT have been any between SU and US. On the otherhand, SU was kept going by the energy prices bonanza of the 1970s. As soon as Afgan war and Reagan's arms race started demanding more cash, the structure was exposed and forced to change. The Russians themselves brought their country down sinking the economy by 80% of the original, while US just kept on increasing the pressure with a smirk on their face.

What is the real force behind Russia...........if Jim Rogers and past cyclical theories are right, then energy prices will be high until 2015-2018 and that will extend the clock of Russia to 2030 if rest remains the same, i.e. no major war etc. Guess they have a head start of 20 years or so, to develop some industry other than commodities which proves to be the constant bread winner at all times and keeps the Russians busy in working rather than joining Mafia and sending the loot to the Swiss banks. Leech mentality both over their own country and over the world would not work as it has not worked for any in the past.

Not to be nit picking but there were two other leaders in between Brezhnev and Gorbachev. (Chernienko and Andropov)

 

[saxon22]

Quote from newbunch:

I don't think the USA is as bad as you say, but anybody who thinks it is true capitalism or "fair" is just naive.

As capitalists, people think we are pro-business. We capitalist are pro-business, but we are against the lobbying, bribing, and manipulation of government by business interests. We are also against lobbying, bribing, and manipulation done by labor union, environmental groups, etc.

"Government that governs least governs best."

Yea right that is why there are close to 35,000 lobbyists in DC. If you think that there is no manipulation, bribing done in the US I have two bridges for sale for you pal.

 

[toc]

'Not to be nit picking but there were two other leaders in between Brezhnev and Gorbachev. (Chernienko and Andropov)'

actually you are knit-picking, like a good old grandma! russian or american?

 

[rustrader]

Quote from newbunch:

Laissez faire means the government stays out of it. This is exactly the opposite. Economic totalitarianism.

Agree, 100%. I live in Russia and see it with my own eyes. All state institutions (Government, Supreme Court, etc.) are fake except president's administration which monopolize economical and political power. Putin is state gangster #1. Period.

 

[BlueStreek]

i live in america....but I don`t buy into all that bs propaganda about american values being superior to the rest of the world.

You have to be objective, this country has one stated policy about immigration, and has an implicit policy in actuality for the last 30 years.

They cannot even balance a feakin budget every year, let alone the escalating national debt---ss is running out b/c they have used funds allocated for ss to pay for expenses in other areas.

The only difference bewteen what Enron did and was taken to court for basically (off balance sheet financing) and the us got. is that one is too powerful to be taken to court--how do you indict the entire us govt.`s budgetary policies for the last 40 years?

you don`t: he who has the gold makes the rules===not much different in actuality from russia when you strip away the superficial layers that separate the two countries.

russia was always part capitalism:look at how the special people are treated, i.e., olympic athletes versus average citizens---that`s capitalism.

and america was never totally capitalistic either---we are full of socialistic principles from big govt. to religious organizations and their inherent power structures supported through favorable tax status.

 

[toc]

US and other nations do not need 100% capitalism. The current US model is just fine only addition needed is some sort of help for the health care even if it means extra $25-50 a month tax deduction depending on the income class. Also, send prisoners to Mexico and save $50B a year easy by not spending $45K per inmate each year. That alone will plug the illegal immigration to the US given extra $10-15B a year influx into Mexican economy will create more local jobs there.

 

[toc]

'russia was always part capitalism:look at how the special people are treated, i.e., olympic athletes versus average citizens---that`s capitalism.'

selfish interest is the core part of human mindset, thus russians being humans were always normal people except for 70 years of communism forced upon them by the psychopaths.

capitalism in itself has many forms also, and it seems whenever ethics and discipline are voilated, it also becomes very ugly and tough to live under.