Pushing Yourself To Work Harder

Quote from gmst:


I am confident that instead of above, if I spend my time like below - my productivity, PL, trading and software skills, etc. will increase much faster.
  • ET Reading and replying - 1hrs
  • Reading general news (politics etc.) - 1hr
  • Trading - 4hrs
  • Coding/Researching strategies - 4 hrs
  • Planning/Dreaming/making realistic/ unrealistic future plans- 1 hr
  • Some other cool stuff that I do - 2hrs
    Total - 13hrs per day
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I can save you time and make you a lot more cash. My (completely voluntary) fee is that you PM me your very best 2-3 trading ideas per annum.

ET reading and replying - 5 minutes per day to scan for anything you can profit from.

Reading general news/politics - 5 minutes to scan for anything you can profit from.

Trading - 4 hours, agree

Coding/researching strategies - 4 hours. Reasonable, but better to drop down to 2-3 hours to keep your mind fresh. 2-3 hours at 100% performance is better than 4 hours at 60% performance. If you want to maintain the total hours, do 2 hours pure research and big-picture thinking each day on the weekend when there is no distraction from open markets.

Making unrealistic future plans - 0 minutes

Other cool stuff - 0 minutes.

Total - 6-8 hours 10 minutes per day. There, I just saved you 5 hours a day, 1250 hours a year. Even if your profits stay the same, that is a huge benefit.
 
Quote from justrading:

You worry about the process, the journey, rather than the destination.

Begin with the end in sight.

Set goals, then figure out what you need to do to get there. It may be 20 hours a week, it may be 100 hours. And do leave time for the really important things in life.

If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
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The problem with that is it's often not clear how to get there. For example, how does an unmotivated person find motivation? A healthy mix of goal-driven behaviour, and unplanned open exploratory behaviour, tends to deliver better results as well as more life satisfaction. Often the solutions to psychological problems are just to pursue life interests and passions in other areas.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

The problem with that is it's often not clear how to get there. For example, how does an unmotivated person find motivation? A healthy mix of goal-driven behaviour, and unplanned open exploratory behaviour, tends to deliver better results as well as more life satisfaction. Often the solutions to psychological problems are just to pursue life interests and passions in other areas.
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I did say to leave time for the really important things in life, and that excludes trading. :)

If someone really does not want to do something, I doubt he could be motivated to do it. Not even paying a huge wage would do it because human nature being what it is, after a while that would be the basic expectation and then it's back to square one.

OP did say he wants to do better at trading, so setting measurable goals and tracking progress may motivate him, ie he sees progress and wants more.

On the other hand perhaps he only thinks he likes trading, deep down inside he does not?

For the things I wanted to do in life, I never needed to be motivated or pushed. For the things I did not want to do, no amount of pushing could bring out the best in me. That's just me though.
 
Quote from justrading:



For the things I wanted to do in life, I never needed to be motivated or pushed. For the things I did not want to do, no amount of pushing could bring out the best in me. That's just me though.
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I did. I can easily get bored if the work environment is bad. I can stop exercise if I am alone in a small apartment with no parks or gyms nearby, and no exercise partner to work out with. I can stop saving if I am dating a manic-spending woman, etc.

By contrast, a motivated fitness freak friend can get me to get into excellent shape. A frugal woman can get me to save more. A good instructor can get me to learn a new skill fast and well; a bad one can put me off it permanently. Environment and peer group is HUGE and that is a proven fact.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

I did. I can easily get bored if the work environment is bad. I can stop exercise if I am alone in a small apartment with no parks or gyms nearby, and no exercise partner to work out with. I can stop saving if I am dating a manic-spending woman, etc.

By contrast, a motivated fitness freak friend can get me to get into excellent shape. A frugal woman can get me to save more. A good instructor can get me to learn a new skill fast and well; a bad one can put me off it permanently. Environment and peer group is HUGE and that is a proven fact.
More...

Yup, there is no one size fits all in life. People are different and will respond differently to stimuli.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

I did. I can easily get bored if the work environment is bad. I can stop exercise if I am alone in a small apartment with no parks or gyms nearby, and no exercise partner to work out with. I can stop saving if I am dating a manic-spending woman, etc.

By contrast, a motivated fitness freak friend can get me to get into excellent shape. A frugal woman can get me to save more. A good instructor can get me to learn a new skill fast and well; a bad one can put me off it permanently. Environment and peer group is HUGE and that is a proven fact.
More...

I will also agree that having good people around oneself is very important.
I have seen so many people's lives go litterally downhill when associating with people who literally brought them down down the line ( bad friends, bad boss, bad colleagues, bad partners, bad wife/husband...)

And I will agree with justtrading, that when one is into something one deep down does not really want, it is just a question of time before the extremely negative consequences take over ( problems, boredom, illness, depression,... the whole lot). So it is best when one realises it is not something one really likes, to find a way to avoid it ( including outsourcing, or any other option to remove the thing one does not really want). Looks like law of nature in a certain way.
 
How do you apply yourself?

My trading improved when I was willing to think of it as a job.

When I've worked for others, I am expected to show up and stick with it. Do whatever the job requires.

Not go to the fridge inumerable times. Or other diversions, which exist beyond count, mental and emotional.

Not exactly what you are asking, but related and some have alluded to... that trading should/could be at least not hard. Perhaps trading is like flexing a muscle. With trading it is a mental and emotional muscle. Once we get used to flexing that particular muscle and have learned to used it and it becomes strong... we forget all the effort it took to get there. Once you get there, trading is not hard, and can even be relaxing.

But the learning curve is so step most quit. Something about this question is one key part... that either is the cause many quit, or it reflects the cause why many quit. It is an essential part of the process of becoming a professional trader. Alas, just one of many essential parts!
 
Quote from STC Capital:

As we all know, trading is hard work and usually requires years of pragmatic experience to do well...and even then, success still isn't guaranteed. With that being said, here's my story: Currently, I'm a swing trader. I hold futures contracts for a couple days to a week during any given trade. Every now and then, I scalp the market intraday as well. My system is highly technical, while at the same time, I pay attention to the fundamentals.

Now here's my dilemma: The only time I find myself analyzing the markets or the economy is when I feel like putting on a trade, which may be every other week. I'm not satisfied w/ that habit in myself. I'd like to be a person who eats, sleeps, breathes the markets. I'd like to be that kind of person who's up at 4 in the morning trading currencies and commodities. But I'm having a hard time pushing myself to be that person...as bad as I want to be. BTW, I am profitable but I know I can do a lot better. In a way, I actually feel lazy, especially in comparison to traders I've come across who ARE the type of traders I'm looking to be. I guess you can say I want that 16-20 hour a day work ethic.

One can easily say that you must love trading to be the type of trader I'm discussing. But my love for trading is undeniable. It's all I talk and think about...but its the DOING that I'm having a hard time with.

I'm a skilled guy in terms of psychology but my biggest hurdle in psychology is applying it to myself. I'd like to know if anyone has faced a similar dilemma as myself and if so, how'd you overcome it? Or, if anyone can offer any helpful advice, it'd be greatly appreciated.
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I posted a comment similar to this in another thread, but it applies here too.
I used to believe, like so many posters on this thread, that I needed to think about the market less when I was not about to make a trade. I thought it would help me to not overtrade or become impatient. But it didn't work, and I assume I'm not alone.
What did work for me was taking a lesson from my brother, who is a chess-master. Unlike recreational chess players, a chess master is not trying to get good at figuring out the best decision to make in real time as the game progresses. He is not trying to get good at improvising moves based on a better understanding of the game and various strategies. Rather, he spends hundreds, and even thousands of hours alone away from competition and actual games examining piece combinations, what they mean, and how to recognize them when mixed in with other unnecessary pieces.
I feel the mistake traders make, myself included, is to examine the present chart. Spend all weekend looking 100 times at the same data until monday morning rolls around. That would be like a chess player staring at the board for two days waiting for his opponent to make a move. He's not going to learn anything new in those two days.
You already know (hopefully) a dozen or so variations on the signals you are looking for to buy and sell. Instead of trying to figure out what the market is doing or will do in the next moments or days, turn your energy to re-inforcing the recognition of those dozen signal variations so that when they do come, you'll recognize them immediately.
In the waiting time, the only question to ask is "Do I see one of those set-ups?" No? Then close the charts and go practice recognizing those patterns. Draw them. Draw parts of them and get used to seeing what a "half-formed" set up looks like. This will help you recognize one in real time. Do everything you can that has nothing to do with the game that is currently in progress. Then you can satiate your interest in the market while not overanalyzing the present market.
 
Quote from gmst:

I face a similar problem. I spend around 13-14 hours per day doing things related to trading. Sometimes for days and days I only code strategies and then trade during RTH. On many other days, I only think about ideas. Many days I just spend time reading ET. If I have to take an average, my time gets spent like this:
  • ET reading and replying - 4hrs
  • Reading general news (politics etc.) - 2hrs
  • Trading - 3 hrs
  • Coding/Researching strategies - 1 hrs
  • Planning/Dreaming/making realistic/ unrealistic future plans- 1 hr
  • Some other cool stuff that I do - 2hrs
    Total - 13hrs per day
I am confident that instead of above, if I spend my time like below - my productivity, PL, trading and software skills, etc. will increase much faster.
  • ET Reading and replying - 1hrs
  • Reading general news (politics etc.) - 1hr
  • Trading - 4hrs
  • Coding/Researching strategies - 4 hrs
  • Planning/Dreaming/making realistic/ unrealistic future plans- 1 hr
  • Some other cool stuff that I do - 2hrs
    Total - 13hrs per day
If you carefully compare, just making these small changes, will increase the real work that I do by a factor of 2x. I consider my real work to be Trading and Coding/Researching strategies. So, from spending 4 hrs per day on these 2 things, I would be spending 8 hrs per day on these 2 things.

Your takeaway - Analyse thouself. You have made a good start by identifying a problem and asking about it here.

1) Now, do a break-down of your daily routine, cut all the unessential tasks, increase time spent on essential tasks

2) Involve someone else (your friend, wife, girlfriend, your child, neighbour, coworker whoever) and share your earlier and new plans on how you are going to spend your daily time.

3) It becomes infinitely more easy to stick to resolutions and make personal changes when you are working on achieving it with someone instead of working it all alone. This person who you involve with yourself, should spend at least couple of hours everyday with you for first few months, working on modifying your daily usage of time.

Btw, thanks for asking this question. Replying to you, I just did a personal analysis. I am surely going to improve. This has been one instance when I learnt something about myself while trying to offer good advise to someone else. :)
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Its too bad you do not do any drills.
 
Hi OP

I am that guy who lives/breathes the markets. I work about 16-18 hours a day. I'm on watch 24/7.

My prop firm bosses regularly tell me to take a holiday and take a break, but I'm not stopping until I've made a net worth of about 15 million, at that point I'll start taking a holiday (for a week maximum!)

You need to commit yourself to the dream every single day. Time passes by very quickly for me when you're hunting for opportunity. I recommend you dedicate this seriously and join a prop firm.

You can always pm me for advice or questions you may have. Good luck.

Oh and by the way, if anyone asks me if its worth it -- well obviously the answer is yes. I have zero time for anything between Monday 8:30am up to Saturday morning 7am (living in Australia). I participate in everything and watch everything. I'm not even an overly active trader, but I'm there watching and trying to get a position on and scalp around.

Also I would not be where I am today without having put all those hours in. If I did half my hours I was suffer big time and even get lazier. I'm on my way to having a $50k stop and then working on getting a $100k stop in the future so I'm on track, and only this is possible because of my extreme win-at-all-costs work ethic.

it gets results. by the way, NOBODY who does long hours consistently loses. you will always find a way to make money every month. trust me.
 
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