Puncturing the Acupuncture Myth

[spindr0]

For a lot of people, by the time they have gotten to an acupuncturist, they have tried many other modalities seeking relief. I'm one of them. After a nasty car wreck many years ago and a parade through different specialists, I was one of them.

Though my thought process is geared toward western medicine and I'm skeptical of alternative medicine, I'm not so stubborn or close minded enough to shut out the possibility that one couldn't work. Given that a few friends had success with it, why not give it a shot? So the first thing the Acu Doc asks me before starting treatment is when I was born. With my response, he determines from a sheet of paper that I'm the year of the Rabbit and that determines my treatment. Really?

I think that many people suffering from pain of duration walks through the door with some degree of frustration and desperation which feeds an anxiety component which in turn exacerbates the pain (anxiety releases adrenaline and adds to muscle spasm as well as other issues). Just the mere hope of someone possibly alleviating that pain reduces the anxiety component and creates a Placebo Effect.

Acupuncture did nothing for me but it was worth a shot, ummm, a stab. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Pekelo]

Yeah explain to me how they can do surgeries with the placebo effect:

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Yeah explain to me how they can do surgeries with the placebo effect:

Power of suggestion (placebo), in much the same way that hypnosis can be used on some people as an anaesthetic. Think you're a candidate? Give it a try the next time you need a root canal. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Pekelo]

Give it a try the next time you need a root canal. Let us know how it goes.

Exactly my point. So people who says acupuncture is worthless have to explain away how it works instead of anasthesia.

 

[jem]

I only had it once. I had been in a to 3.5 hour tennis match in high heat and did not drink enough water. I was almost out and I had a doubles match 2 hours later. I recovered amazingly well.
But, I was also eighteen years old and running 5 to 7 miles a day on top of playing tennis everyday. So I don't really know... but I did feel good really quickly. (and the "doctor" gave a a the treatment free. )

My brother had if for years in an attempt to fix a messed up wrist from playing and teaching golf. It never really fixed the condition.

I hope a person who believes in it posts.
I would like to see the other side of the argument if there one.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Exactly my point. So people who says acupuncture is worthless have to explain away how it works instead of anasthesia.

Right, it is as useful as an inert sugar pill that the patient believes has medicinal value, made all the more convincing with some added ceremony and attention. Did you read the article?

Again, put your money where your mouth is, and do be sure to let us know how your next surgery goes with some acupuncture anaesthetic. Let's hope that you very susceptible to the power of suggestion, otherwise I expect that the procedure will be particularly memorable.

 

[Pekelo]

Sure, if my surgery bill is going to be 2-3K lower, bring the needles on!

Again, put your money where your mouth is, and do be sure to let us know how your next surgery goes with some acupuncture anaesthetic. .

So you are saying they are doing surgeries using the placebo effect of acupuncture? Hey, probably better than fixed up on morphin. They did it on horses too, do horses believe???

It is only a 1500 year old practice but sure you don't have to accept facts.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2005290114001186

"The lack of pain, relaxed surgical procedures, reduced intraoperative bleeding, and improved healing without complications were all definite benefits of using electroacupuncture analgesia in surgery. Thus, this study has provided surgical evidence supporting the effectiveness of electroacupuncture analgesia, as well as confirming its reliability, in the field of equine anesthesia and surgery."

Here, the guy is wide awake while his stomach is open, and literally walks off of the operating table. Care to explain it?:

Here today in the USA:

 

[Sprout]

If acupuncture was not effective it would not have continued it’s steady march of western culture’s mainstream acceptance. This acceptance is demonstrated by health insurance expanding coverage to include treatments.

This thread demonstrates the concept of necebo.

In the same vein, cannabis listed as schedule 1, follows the same line of thinking.

Relief comes in all forms, just as in trading, there is no ‘right’ system. The missing ingredient is that it’s you that makes a system ‘right’.

If there is anything to fault in our healthcare system it’s the abdication of personal responsibility in one’s lifestyle choices - that and the change from a non-profit business model to a for-profit one.

 

[Visaria]

This thread demonstrates the concept of necebo.

i think u mean nocebo. Nocebo means you think something will have a negative effect and it does have a negative effect when in reality there was no actual cause from the "something"(placebo is when you think something will have a positive effect and there is a positive effect but the cause is not from the "something"). How does nocebo relate to this thread?

If acupuncture was not effective it would not have continued it’s steady march of western culture’s mainstream acceptance. This acceptance is demonstrated by health insurance expanding coverage to include treatments.

Whether or not something is adopted doesn't mean it works. For example, homeopathy was adopted by the NHS in the UK. Fortunately they seem to be retreating from it.

 

[Sprout]

i think u mean nocebo. Nocebo means you think something will have a negative effect and it does have a negative effect when in reality there was no actual cause from the "something"(placebo is when you think something will have a positive effect and there is a positive effect but the cause is not from the "something"). How does nocebo relate to this thread?

Yes, nocebo. Whenever I hear of the placebo effect, I like to assert it’s counterpoint. As it relates to this thread, the relationship between ‘medicine’ and the ‘mind’ is not always straightforward and frequently counter-intuitive.

Acupuncture, for those who have experienced relief, is effective. For those that didn’t ‘feel’ anything, and are die-hard western medicine advocates maybe not-so-much.

My main point is that the beliefs we have about things shapes our perception which in turn produces measurable physiological changes in alignment with those beliefs.