Psychology, are you sure?

base your trades on more info, i.e.. relationships to other indexes and how close they are to support and resistance, you will go from micro focused to macro focused, you will see less setups and trade less, but when u do trade your w/l ratio will go up... if you have add, this is a common problem, and a decent solution
 
One additional food for thought – and to close the loop


Why is “I am always open and willing to learn from anyone” so important

Btw – This is a rhetorical question – but I will offer up some possible answers


1) I need to learn how to trade and will plagiarize anyone’s system or ideas because I am too damn lazy to do it on my own

2) I am a weak willed individual incapable of free thought and independent action

3) I am not open or need to be – your question is stupid and does not apply

4) I am an inquisitive (nosey) person who wants to know everyone’s business

5) There is a completely unforgiving place I go that.....

If I have an opinion – it will use it against me
If I am not open to what it is telling me – it will use it against me
If I am not willing to change, exactly as it changes – it will use it against me
If I am not willing to learn and apply the lessons it teaches – it will use it against me
If I do not work my butt off everyday to maintain and open mind – it will use it against me
If I do not take exactly what it tells me and do exactly what I must no matter what I think – it will use it against me
If I am incapable of independent action, while maintaining a completely open mind – it will use it against me

If what I am doing sucks / or my system is flawed – it will use it against me
If I am unwilling to change what sucks / or is flawed – It will use it against me



Your answer may differ….

My Answer – To make money
Always Remember – making money is the “only” thing important in this silly ass business – everything else is pure BS



To that end I would submit – that if you were to drill down to the very core of what it take to trade successfully;


“Being completely open – while doing exactly what you must, regardless of what you think – 100% of the time….”

Are the two “most” important skills to have and use…. But as always – each trader’s mileage may vary….


SIDE NOTE
Some may call skill one – being adaptable/ flexable…., skill two – being disciplined / trading without emotion…

Who cares – all that matters is that you use them – else you will fail


Now on to the real questions;

How open are you - really?

Are you willing to do exactly what you must – regardless of what you think – 100% of the time?

Both rhetorical questions of course – as it really matters to no one in this business – but you

Regards

RN
 
Quote from Optionpro007:

Travis, I hope this post gives you clarity as it is intended as food for thought and fwiw.

To the casual observer it would look like your problem is a really bad case of trading addiction. But the truth most likely is something else entirely.

Instead of being addicted to trading, you are probably addicted to the feelings you get from trading that follow a cycle I have outlined in a previous post some days ago called the Lust-Fear-Grief cycle.

If you notice when you open a trade you might see this cycle at work.

Why would person become addicted to this cycle?

The answer is: Anxiety. (GAD)

A brain born with G.A.D. will develop certain personality characteristic or disorders that are latent to the conscious mind, that in most cases remain undetected throughout the persons life . The most noticeable of these disorders is called the Self-Defeating or Masochistic Personality Disorder.

For a person who suffers from GAD, holding on to anything (long term) like jobs or relationships can be IMPOSSIBLE. The same goes for short term periods, like holding on to positions or being able to execute a simple trading plan with consistency.

If you feel this is your case, fortunately there is very good news. PM me for details if you think you this is your case.

Cheers!
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Hi, Optionpro007. Thanks for your post.

I may have GAD, but not a severe form of it, because I don't experience any of the physical symptoms listed here except insomnia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalized_anxiety_disorder


But this is true indeed: "excessive, uncontrollable and often irrational worry about everyday things that is disproportionate to the actual source of worry".

Also, things you listed: I can't hold a job for longer than a few years, or I get impatient. Same for girlfriends. I can't get any women, because I make excuses not to be stuck with any girlfriends (I only want them when they don't want me anymore).

Definitely have a problem with any type of discipline. As soon as anything becomes a rule, I must break it. Even my own rules. I am always challenging authority and rules. Also, at work, I am so tired, that I am always complaining to the boss, and if he ever says anything to me, I often reply "go ahead, and fire me, seriously". But it must be stressed that I am also the hardest working employee, so I have reasons to complain (almost everyone else is slacking off all day).
 
No one will ever make a longterm, lucrative living having reasonable stats (Sharpe, Profit Factor, etc.) based on Psychology

If you don't have 1+ edges and good money management you are nothing more than a gambler who will lose everything to the house edge (commissions, slippage, risk, your/broker/internet errors, fast markets, disruptive world events, etc.

The market is a lot more efficient and cruel than people like to acknowledge. You will never pull money out of it without a significant outperformance edge. That is the reality of almost every trader.

I cannot imagine how anyone thinks psychology is more than a small factor. A happy, well-adjusted, psychologically-balanced gambler will still lose their money over time.
 
Quote from TraderZones:

No one will ever make a longterm, lucrative living having reasonable stats (Sharpe, Profit Factor, etc.) based on Psychology

If you don't have 1+ edges and good money management you are nothing more than a gambler who will lose everything to the house edge (commissions, slippage, risk, your/broker/internet errors, fast markets, disruptive world events, etc.

The market is a lot more efficient and cruel than people like to acknowledge. You will never pull money out of it without a significant outperformance edge. That is the reality of almost every trader.

I cannot imagine how anyone thinks psychology is more than a small factor. A happy, well-adjusted, psychologically-balanced gambler will still lose their money over time.
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And to each his own TZ - as that IS what makes a market Sir

Regards

RN
 
Hello, Optionpro007, I also wanted to add something. Things have been bad and sick in my past behaviour. And also I might have a few personality disorders. But aside from that, things have been improving in my trading, slowly but constantly, in these past 12 years, and I might be ready for a switch from the masochistic me to the serene and content me.

Yes, my discretionary trading has not improved at all, and has been this bad throughout my trading - with my tendency to blow out my account every few months.

But at the same time, obviously, my knowledge has been increasing. What I did with that knowledge is nothing as far as discretionary trading. But one must also look at the good side of me - automated trading. I have tirelessly and meticulously built one then two, then 10, then 33 systems. Some of them work, some don't, but overall they make money.

Now the biggest step ahead, lately, has been forward testing. By now I have done one month of forward testing. Sure - I've been trading all this time, and the past 12 years: something not recommended (first you should paper trade and forward test - then, if it works, start trading with real money), but... one step at a time I got here, too. I started recklessly, but I have constantly been getting wiser. Now that, for a month, I have finally kept a record of what my systems are actually doing, I clearly see that they perform very well. At the same time I see how, with my discretionary trading, I have been throwing away all their winnings.

So, in summary, I may be unbalanced, insane, reckless, masochistic, but things are getting more and more under control. Yes, overall, in these 12 years, I have lost 50 thousand dollars. But for the past two years I have a slightly positive balance. Yes, mostly because I spent all the money I gained and so I couldn't throw it away. But still...

One more summary: discretionary trading always as bad, automated trading increasingly better, to the point that now I can trust my system like the brother I never had. It will take care of me, despite my emotional instability. I just need to trust this big brother, and let him do what he does. And, as I said, with forward testing, I have seen that he can be trusted.

Maybe because I am such a bad discretionary trader, I have created this rational brother whom I can rely on.

Actually, after all this self-criticism, I think that whatever I have said about myself applies to most traders, because when dealing with money and things that decide our life, more people may show symptoms of personality disorders and irrational behaviours. We all agree that in the long run a majority of people loses money with their trading. But maybe the questions should be raised when people keep losing and trading for 12 years, like in my case, so I agree that I am not normal and that something is wrong with me (and something is right).
 
Travis, nobody is normal, just see traderzones as an example....:D

If you get a chance and are really interested in changing the way your brain processes information I will help you but you will have to do some studying first.

Read 'the blog that ate mind chatter' starting with post nr 1 on cognitive development Dec 10/2007.

Read part 1, 2 and 3 at the very minimum so you can understand where I am coming from and what I am trying to share with you.

Good luck.

:)
 
Quote from Redneck trader:



My Answer – To make money
Always Remember – making money is the “only” thing important in this silly ass business – everything else is pure BS



To that end I would submit – that if you were to drill down to the very core of what it take to trade successfully;


“Being completely open – while doing exactly what you must, regardless of what you think – 100% of the time….”

Are the two “most” important skills to have and use…. But as always – each trader’s mileage may vary….


RN
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I think that was very well put. If your goal in trading is anything other than making as much money as possible, I would not consider you a professional trader.

For myself, that extends to how I am after a winning streak. I try not to let it affect me at all (in both trading and personal life). My job as a trader is to make money, thus a winning string of trades should be something I am prepared for.

However, I am a bit confused with one thing you said:

"while doing exactly what you must, regardless of what you think..."

Would you mind clarifying a bit?

Thanks.
 
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