Psychobabble is horse crap. You put it nicely aphex. I can summarize all the psychology anyone needs in 3 words: "DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE". What else do you need??? Do you need to get into some magic Zen state of mind, with nice smelling flowers and peace drums and maybe some LSD thrown in? - Maybe so if you're like Commisso who trades on a purely discretionary basis and uses gut feel, but if you have hard and fast, objective rules, all the psychology you need is contained in the word DISCIPLINE.
Psychobabble vs. Reality
- Thread starter aphexcoil
- Start date
Flowers, Peace Drums, and LSSSSD ahhhhhhhhhhhh
Actually my morning routine goes something like 2grams of psycilocibin in my tea, 3 glasses of orange juice(yeah you guys all know what Im sayin
, 3 hrs of meditating until I reach a state 2 inches off my carpet ---------> then I jump up into my chair and just start pushing buttons!!!!!!!!!!!!ahhhhh ET -------> A beautiful testament to the human condition
Don't even know if Kubrik could have dreamed up such a glaring reflection of ourselves!
PEACE and good trading Kay,
Commisso
About time I got in this thread to back Aphie to a certain extent.
Let me just clear you up that I talk in different shoes. One from my current shoes and another from the shoes of others. I think some of you noticed that with the other threads but I just want to be clear with that. So from now on, I think I'll starting writing from elaboration of me, and another from the other's shoe.
1. Me. Psycho-babble... very important. I'm a system trader. I trade a lot of symbols. If I cared about each trade winning or losing, I'll be dead in 2 days. I look at trades in chunks of trade, like 50 for me. That's psychobabble... I'm doing the same thing which is trading a signal but because the way I look at it is different I can sustain the trading style as long as I feel there's an edge. I also have the time to post in ET, even during market hours.
2. Aphie's shoe seen from me. Good post. I say this a lot, there are steps. You don't teach a kindergarden kids Quants, you start from 1+1=2. Trading is mirror? Correct in any state of trading. If you have passion, you'll work hard for it. Passion leads to motivation and you're going to be working hard. You won't quit and you'll fight for your passion. If the person had passion, they wouldn't need or seek for mentors to start off with... or... they would seek it but that won't stop them from doing something to get better. Reading(study), papertrading, researching, going to seminars, networking... etc. etc.
Later on, it comes to your perception logic and your deep thinking process. Which comes from single or multiple base beliefs or traumatic instincts. You need to recognize that, because these will definitely reflect your trading decisions. You think in a way that makes you lose = the way you think(Thought Logic and Process) or what you instinctively, traumatically, or base beliefishly is causing it to make you make losing trades.
3. TraderKay. Discipline? Yes and no. Why yes? Once you start following a edging system. You'll definitely get into a losing streak. You'll have the urge to change the system. Another is you won't be able to duplicate the back-tested results. Some reasons will be slippage but also the fact that you're the one trading it. Knowing that, discipline is important, but if you know your system well enough, knowledge can let you confirm the discipline.
Why no? Discipline is not the only key. At some point, the system will not work. You'll start losing when the system should work. Was I overfitting the system? No, it's just that the market is changing. When do you change it? I've changed my system 5-6 times, all of them with completely different concepts. Is this discipline? I'm discretionarily, changed the system. Well, I knew my system well enough so once the system started lag on performance when they should have worked(very scary expression, "It should work, why doesn't it?!!". I start looking at other concepts. Fortunately, I'm very good at Equity Curve Analysis and a few other things so I can do it well.
Anyways, system trading isn't just about discipline. You are constantly making a system and thinking of it, testing stuff. You need to expand your knowledge constantly and keep up with the change of the market. It's not an easy style. You do massive amount of work after the market ends, constantly front of the computer and hand-written charts for me.
Let me just clear you up that I talk in different shoes. One from my current shoes and another from the shoes of others. I think some of you noticed that with the other threads but I just want to be clear with that. So from now on, I think I'll starting writing from elaboration of me, and another from the other's shoe.
1. Me. Psycho-babble... very important. I'm a system trader. I trade a lot of symbols. If I cared about each trade winning or losing, I'll be dead in 2 days. I look at trades in chunks of trade, like 50 for me. That's psychobabble... I'm doing the same thing which is trading a signal but because the way I look at it is different I can sustain the trading style as long as I feel there's an edge. I also have the time to post in ET, even during market hours.
2. Aphie's shoe seen from me. Good post. I say this a lot, there are steps. You don't teach a kindergarden kids Quants, you start from 1+1=2. Trading is mirror? Correct in any state of trading. If you have passion, you'll work hard for it. Passion leads to motivation and you're going to be working hard. You won't quit and you'll fight for your passion. If the person had passion, they wouldn't need or seek for mentors to start off with... or... they would seek it but that won't stop them from doing something to get better. Reading(study), papertrading, researching, going to seminars, networking... etc. etc.
Later on, it comes to your perception logic and your deep thinking process. Which comes from single or multiple base beliefs or traumatic instincts. You need to recognize that, because these will definitely reflect your trading decisions. You think in a way that makes you lose = the way you think(Thought Logic and Process) or what you instinctively, traumatically, or base beliefishly is causing it to make you make losing trades.
3. TraderKay. Discipline? Yes and no. Why yes? Once you start following a edging system. You'll definitely get into a losing streak. You'll have the urge to change the system. Another is you won't be able to duplicate the back-tested results. Some reasons will be slippage but also the fact that you're the one trading it. Knowing that, discipline is important, but if you know your system well enough, knowledge can let you confirm the discipline.
Why no? Discipline is not the only key. At some point, the system will not work. You'll start losing when the system should work. Was I overfitting the system? No, it's just that the market is changing. When do you change it? I've changed my system 5-6 times, all of them with completely different concepts. Is this discipline? I'm discretionarily, changed the system. Well, I knew my system well enough so once the system started lag on performance when they should have worked(very scary expression, "It should work, why doesn't it?!!". I start looking at other concepts. Fortunately, I'm very good at Equity Curve Analysis and a few other things so I can do it well.
Anyways, system trading isn't just about discipline. You are constantly making a system and thinking of it, testing stuff. You need to expand your knowledge constantly and keep up with the change of the market. It's not an easy style. You do massive amount of work after the market ends, constantly front of the computer and hand-written charts for me.
This is very very important "psyco-babble" that you touch on Gann. Learning to detach your emotions from the "fruits" of your actions on a micro-scale (trade to trade, day to day) is critical for any trader. To see the forest through the trees is a very difficult line of sight to finally get to in this game, but critical if you want to be able to detach the emotions from the process and achieve a state of clarity in which you can act freely and in the moment...
As for Aphies post, he says a lot of stuff that makes sense, but as usual he lets his ignorance and arrogance shine right through. To assume that there is some kind of objective, absolute reality in this game and the arrogance to think he some how can see it without ever jumping in there first to do it for a living.
Sorry Aphie but your post is comparable to me telling Brett Farve about the psychology of football or telling Brando about the "reality" of acting...
With that said Aphie, if I put myself in your shoes, flip the script and go in a time vessel to a place I was 5 years ago.... Seriously if someone would have said trading is like a mirror, I would have said horseshit! Trading is buying a company with a perfect cup w/handle and an EPS ranking of 98
So I do see where you are coming from Aphie and this post is in no way an attempt to get a rise out of you... just my 2-cents... In the end if you are receptive enough she will slowly, but surely dispel any pre and mis conceptions you may have at this time!I sincerely wish that all your candles be mighty green!
PEACE and good trading,
Commisso
Aphie,
I wasn't taking shots at you! My words were genuine. Was just my 2 cents -- take them for what they are worth...
If you can't see from where you are standing that you are in no position to try and size up what is pure psycho-babble and what is not -- then she will soon do it for you...
And I know I once said that I wanted to ignore your existence on this board, but I changed my mind
You are simply to comical not to pay attention to. Your prescence serves as sort of a time vessel that takes me back to a time when I too was an ignorant, arrogant, know it all. Conceptualizing and thinking I knew somehow what it was all about. The way will be found in action not thought -- she will soon show you...
Oh and per your latest thread to Gordon -- I really liked most of what you had to say. Are you sure you never read any Taoist or Zen "thought"? You sure summed up the Water Course way with your latest offering
This is a compliment Aphie...PEACE bro, and may all your candles be lit green
Commisso