LOL, Don ducked it again, would not answer as to what is the rate of turnaround at the props meaning how many what so called 'traders' lose their 50K or more in couple of weeks or so. I bet the ratio is more than 10 to 1 for those who exit after losses than those who keep on 'surviving but do not know for how long'.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Prop vs. Hedge Fund
- Thread starter Lights
- Start date
OPM on a hedge fund deal doesn't come with any downside risk. Just the loss on your personal investment in the fund and getting fired by your investors if you lose.
It is this free option that makes it valuable. If your performance were a sure thing leverage it yourself and keep all the profits for yourself.
It is this free option that makes it valuable. If your performance were a sure thing leverage it yourself and keep all the profits for yourself.
Quote from toc:
LOL, Don ducked it again, would not answer as to what is the rate of turnaround at the props meaning how many what so called 'traders' lose their 50K or more in couple of weeks or so. I bet the ratio is more than 10 to 1 for those who exit after losses than those who keep on 'surviving but do not know for how long'.
Ducked what? You're saying that traders lose $50K in a couple of weeks?? That's insane.
(Once again, as reported to regulators)
90% of new business ventures fail the first year.
50% of our traders make it the second year
Another half of business ventures fail the second year.
We may lose another 10% or so the second year
And, BTW, 95% of our new traders put up less than $25K anyway.
Not sure where you're geting your information...but feel free to call me directly to discuss.
Don
Thanks Don for the candid information, I am not a propr trading type of guy as it really scares me given I have had my shares of losing streaks in the futures markets. I would stick to trading investing in stocks and market indicies on the mainly position trading basis and hope to beat the market averages and employ margins to further improve the take home figures.
Trading is never easy and I have immense respect for those who survive in it with good annual returns.
Trading is never easy and I have immense respect for those who survive in it with good annual returns.
Quote from toc:
Thanks Don for the candid information, I am not a propr trading type of guy as it really scares me given I have had my shares of losing streaks in the futures markets. I would stick to trading investing in stocks and market indicies on the mainly position trading basis and hope to beat the market averages and employ margins to further improve the take home figures.
Trading is never easy and I have immense respect for those who survive in it with good annual returns.
Just a comment....we never look at ROI or "returns" as traders, since if you starte with $5,000 and make 200% annual return, you're still pretty much broke, right? And, if you put up $15K and use $2million of our money to make $200K per year, are you making 10% or are you making 1333%....both of which don't really make sense.
Money is just a tool to be used by traders to make a living, and they get "paid" for their skills, expertise, training, and all the rest.
The first (ROI) is for basically passive investing, the second is obviously for a full time trader.
You're absolutely correct to stay within your personal "comfort level" - trading may be "simple" - but, as you say, not "easy". Too much psychology involved...that's the hardest part of training new people.
All the best,
Don
Quote from Don Bright:
[50% of our traders make it the second year
We may lose another 10% or so the second year
Don [/B]
i'm amazed. has this been stated in a previous thread; only been around a year, but i don't remember hearing this. I think someone asked once, but i didn't follow.
hypothetically, those numbers are great.
Quote from newguy1:
i'm amazed. has this been stated in a previous thread; only been around a year, but i don't remember hearing this. I think someone asked once, but i didn't follow.
hypothetically, those numbers are great.
I hate to nitpick here, but what is Don's definition of making it? Most of Don's traders are remote. Therefore it's very possible they have accounts open but actually work other jobs and don't really make any money trading. Listen very carefully to what Don is saying. He never said 50% of his traders are net profitable. Huuuuuuuuuge difference.
Quote from Maverick74:
I hate to nitpick here, but what is Don's definition of making it? Most of Don's traders are remote. Therefore it's very possible they have accounts open but actually work other jobs and don't really make any money trading. Listen very carefully to what Don is saying. He never said 50% of his traders are net profitable. Huuuuuuuuuge difference.
i thought that too; all how you define the terms.
but i didn't feel like pressing him on it; what would be the point?
(thats my cynical side popping up. I've been shown pnl records twice. i mean, what are they going to do, show me that everyone is red?)
i'm just giving don the benefit of the doubt, meaning whatever he means by it, he's not intentionally trying to deceive. (i interpreted the statement as 50% have green accounts, but not necessarily considered profitable in the sense they can make a living.) Theres no way for me to ever really know, i was just expressing my surprise, nothing more. If I've misinterpreted his words, i would not expect him to set me straight. If i was that concerned, i would pm him and hope he replies. I just thought, "hm, does anyone else find this surprising?". apparently not, as it has already been discussed many times according to lescor.
Quote from Maverick74:
I hate to nitpick here, but what is Don's definition of making it? Most of Don's traders are remote. Therefore it's very possible they have accounts open but actually work other jobs and don't really make any money trading. Listen very carefully to what Don is saying. He never said 50% of his traders are net profitable. Huuuuuuuuuge difference.
Well, Mav...I was denied my request to post on a public board. But, I will bet you dinner that well over 50% of our "seasoned" traders are profitable (seasoned=24 months experience here). If I were to add all the newbies, you're correct just by my own definition of "losing" 50% during the first year (vs. 90% for all business ventures, as mentioned before).
Compared to the days on the trading floor, I think we do much better...the attrition rate was horrible...and, from what I'm told, isn't much better these days.
(Now, I'm going to wait for anyone from anywhere to say anything remotely significant about a firm that they run)....I won't hold my breath, LOL.
See you next week...
Don