Prop Trading - What do I need to do to break in?

Quote from kline116:

I'm with you but I've been at this for about 3 years on and off. The main obstacle I'm battling is working a full time job and not being able to watch the markets. I feel that if I could get into a firm that gave me a minimum salary and a training program, it would be a very efficient way to speed up my learning curve.
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not trying to be an a$$hole but goodluck with the salary part. There are tons of prop firms out there that will take you regardless of your accomplishments. Having a series 56/7 and some capital is all that it really needs. yes, bright, echo and the few others mentioned above are the best in the biz but there are many more that will take you for a smaller capital contribution. these aren't hedge funds and many of them are not "jobs." they are just the link between you and the market who give you major leverage and get you around the PDT rule. 95% do not offer salaries, benefits, etc. You're probably going to have to set some money aside to afford to live without working or working as much because juggling a full time job and daytrading is quite the task. perhaps adapt to swing trading for the meantime?

There are firms that offer training, though I personally wouldn't recommend paying for any of the training services, (that's just me though). Also, no offense, BUT if someone is going to be accepting people to trade for them (and assuming 100% of the risk) while paying them salaries, that trader better damn well know how to successfully trade on their own.

I know for me there were periods where I would work and trade, and then I would have time off for school and trade simultaneously, but when I had to work and be locked up all day during most of the market hours it hurt my account much more than when I was in school. I couldn't adapt to not being able to monitor the markets, so I would swing trade when it was that time of year for me to work, and I was much more successful with 2-5 day trades instead of 2-5 hour trades. perhaps you could try this while working a full time job?
 
Quote from kline116:

I'm with you but I've been at this for about 3 years on and off. The main obstacle I'm battling is working a full time job and not being able to watch the markets. I feel that if I could get into a firm that gave me a minimum salary and a training program, it would be a very efficient way to speed up my learning curve.
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You should only trade with RISK CAPITAL. that is, money you are willing to lose. It sounds like in your situation, you need some type of financial stability. DO NOT RELY ON TRADING FOR FINANCIAL SUPPORT IF YOU DO NOT ALREADY MAKE A LIVING OFF IT. Even if you do make a living off it, it's a bad idea to rely on 1 source of income.

I hate to be blunt but if you can't afford to take risks trading, don't trade. I personally lost about 15-20k in the markets. Accounts go up and down just like markets. The loses are an expense and are a cost associated with doing business.

If you really want to trade that badly, work as a waiter or similar job that has afternoon/evening hours. Either way it will be difficult. I don't know one successful trader, or for that matter one successful business person, who didn't pay their dues. It's a part of life.
 
As I stated in my original post, I have already traded with a remote prop firm before and lost a good amount of money. The main thing I am looking for is mentoring but without having to pay $10k+ dollars for it. I don't have that kind of money to trade with let alone pay someone to teach me. I feel like if I could get into a prop firm that this would be possible, even if I was just an assistant trader or something.
 
Quote from kline116:

As I stated in my original post, I have already traded with a remote prop firm before and lost a good amount of money. The main thing I am looking for is mentoring but without having to pay $10k+ dollars for it. I don't have that kind of money to trade with let alone pay someone to teach me. I feel like if I could get into a prop firm that this would be possible, even if I was just an assistant trader or something.
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Like weve said earlier, you don't need to "get into" a prop firm. If you have 5 grand you can get into 90% of the firms out there. If you want to get into the best props you need 10-25k. This isn't some playing field that's near impossible to get into. If you've got the dough, they'll have a seat for you
 
Quote from TraderBoy23:

Like weve said earlier, you don't need to "get into" a prop firm. If you have 5 grand you can get into 90% of the firms out there. If you want to get into the best props you need 10-25k. This isn't some playing field that's near impossible to get into. If you've got the dough, they'll have a seat for you
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Sure, and we, my brother and I (among a long list of others, see my other thread requesting help), didn't "have" to get onto the trading floors. We simply had to assume some risk, pass a simple exam, fight like hell to make money, did really well.

If you have some capital, want to be in business for yourself, have better market access and use of capital, then you can be a prop trader. If you're looking for someone to pay you to risk their capital, well, you get my point. Would anyone of you do that?

Would you pay me to risk your capital? Rhetorical, not available at this point in time, LOL.


All the best,

Don
 
Quote from kline116:

How can I break into a proprietary trading firm? My main goal is to trade equities or equity options at a prop firm, but I am willing to do anything related and am willing to work for peanuts to learn the business. I went to a no name school, got a 3.3 Overall, 3.7 Major GPA in Financial Markets Finance. I was part of a student-ran "long/short market neutral" hedge fund and learned a lot. Since then, for the past few years I have been working in operations for a couple different big banks building my Excel and VBA skills. I tried trading remotely with an "arcade" prop firm but failed miserably and lost a considerable amount of money( ~$20k) and realize I need mentoring/training if I am going to make a living doing this. I have read countless amounts of trading books and follow the markets religiously but I don't have much I can offer these firms on paper.

Here are some options I have thought of to break in, do you think any of them are good? What else do I need to be doing?

1.) Will it work to start networking my ass off?
2.) Do whatever I can to get into a good MBA program.
3.) Go for my Masters in Financial Engineering.
4.) Build a track record in my own trading account with small size.
5.) Get a back office or assistant job at a prop firm and work my way up.
6.) Try to get into an internship program.
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1) Definitely...besides having a great track record this is just as important.
2) Not really.
3) Nope
4)Definitely a great idea. But make sure your strategy is scalable. If you want to get into a real firm, you can't come to them with some strategy that only works scalping 2-3 contracts of Russell futures. Firms with real money to back you have no interest in guys trading these instruments.
5)Another excellent idea. Great way to get into a real firm if you don;t have the experience or track record.
6) Similar to #5.....a good idea.


I am basing this on you wanting to get into a real firm with real capital....not some 90-10 place that will take your 5000 and let you trade...leverage...and then lose everything soon after while they collect commissions and take no risk.
 
Yeah any firm will take you if you have capital. In fact, they'll fight for you. "Give us your money!"

I would say, rather than go for a firm with a training program, you need to find an office where you are going to get daily 1 on 1 mentoring with an experienced, profitable trader.

That being said, you might end up with a guy who doesn't trade in the style you want...

Here is my suggestion...

1. Define your short and long term goals
2. Backtest ideas
3. Demo trade
4. Go live on your own or with a firm
 
look at it this way you can use a firm to reduce costs startup costs and your learning curve, but ultimately, your discretionary trading performance is going to rely on you and you alone.
 
Quote from kline116:

As I stated in my original post, I have already traded with a remote prop firm before and lost a good amount of money. The main thing I am looking for is mentoring but without having to pay $10k+ dollars for it. I don't have that kind of money to trade with let alone pay someone to teach me. I feel like if I could get into a prop firm that this would be possible, even if I was just an assistant trader or something.
More...

Mentoring for nothing and chicks for free.

T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L.
 
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