Prop Trading eminis

cme software and cme maintained lines only cost minmum $1400/month
globex fee structure is excellent if you do volume

106 h/j/n firm fees as of april 1, 2002
Fees for 106 H/J/N Firms trading products within division of B-shares held. Non-member Fees apply when trading outside of division.

Agricultural Products Currency Products (Futures) Currency Products (Options) Interest Rate Products Tiered (First 7,500 Sides) Index Products Other Products E-mini Currency Products E-mini Equity Index Products
Round-Turn Open Outcry $0.98 $0.90 $0.90 $0.98 $1.16 $0.98 N/A N/A
Round-Turn using GLOBEX $1.98 $1.40 $1.90 $1.48 $2.16 $1.98 $1.00 $1.08
Breakdown of Fee Components
Clearing Fees (per side) $0.49 $0.45 $0.45 $0.49 $0.58 $0.49 $0.025 $0.29
GLOBEX System Fees (per side) $0.50 $0.25 $0.50 $0.25 $0.50 $0.50 $0.25 $0.25

The far right column is for emini's for trader with professional status $1.08 a Round Turn:p

Even IB cant touch this setup especially for volume. Also I would dare say the connection quality is probably infinitely better.
 
Originally posted by Commisso


Don,

Out of curiosity why do you only require 25k for equities vs. 100k for futures...

TIA,
Commisso
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Potential for losses is many times more and we have seen people lose over $50K in one day, and we only want experienced traders doing it....and all the experienced guys keep a little extra money in their accounts anyway.

Don
 
Originally posted by Commisso


Don,

I find this statement a bit contradictory??? Why would an "excellent" trader get in any market whether it be stocks,futures,options, he wasn't sure he had an edge in???

What makes these guys such excellent traders if they are not turning a profit???

Understand Don I am not challenging you here I am just trying to understand...

PEACE and good trading,
Commisso
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No reply? what a surprise:)
 
If everybody in the office thinks it can't be done, then it probably will not happen. Think about it. If the Bright brothers are constantly telling you that "You have no edge trading the minis", you're going to be influenced at least a little bit. And if you have 12 guys bleeding money trading minis, it creates a tough environment to succeed.
If anybody wants to prop trade minis, I would suggest giving Heartland Securities a call. They have an arrangement w/ an FCM where you pay $5 a round trip I believe. They connect you to a "clearing firm's VPN." I'm not sure what that means exactly but check it out. The minimum is 50 grand. You can lose half that and still trade. And I'm waiting for Echotrade to get back to me. Supposedly, they'll be ready to trade Eminis by June. And two months free software!
Don, do you think people can successfully trade SPY and QQQ? Do your people do this? If they do, then can they not just watch SPY and put on a 'mini trade instead? Or do you believe that since there's no leading indicator, there's no edge trading the indexes? A lot of people trade the minis here and make money. And wouldn't you say there's less risk trading an index instead of an individual stock?
 
LILTRDR

I agree. A lot of pros and amateurs trade the NQ, ES and ZN successfully. And I think the tendency among more and more daytraders is becoming obvious: trade the eminis. No need to watch the news, scan a bunch of stocks, fight the marketmakers' manipulations, stupid's analysts upgrades/downgrades, Maria Bartiromos' hype, certain hedge fund managers' pumpndump games, etc. What has been going on in the stockmarket lately I would definitely not consider "trading". It is a sort of "video game". The importance of fundamentals is zero. Since this is how I have been making a living: I am happy with it. I am absolutely sure that more and more prop trading firms will offer access to trading the eminis (under reasonable conditions) in the near future. Simply because the increasing demand is there.
Just my $0.02
Have Fun Trading!
 
liltrdr - when someone says that you shouldn't trade the eminis because trading stocks is better, you've got to step back and consider:

1. Is there an inherent conflict?

2. Do they really know anything about trading futures (the argument that there's no leading indicator misses the fact that sometimes the futures lead the cash and at other times the cash (and the ETFs) lead the futures)?

3. Does they're preferred trading approach even make sense for trading futures and thus might impact their perception of the subject?
 
Good points ArchAngel. I don't expect to hear too much from prop firms on this thread as it doesn't dovetail with their core business model.

Just thinking about prop emini trading the benefits that a prop firm could offer would be:

Order placement interface including tech support.

Support for any pit disputes / outages.

Lower commissions. If a prop firm owns a CME membership would they get the member rate on all eminis traded since technically you are trading their money? This could be significant and save money versus leasing a seat.

(no need for more leverage than the average daytrading margins available)

Ability to trade stocks and futures out of the same account.
 
I don't think there are firms that will give you capital to trade more contracts, correct me if I'm wrong. However, there are trading rooms in Chicago for eminis. The advantage is the fortune you save in commissions by leasing a seat. There are people trading for less than $1/side. You also don't have the expense of hooking a T3 line to your house. The margin per/ct can be very low as well if they like your record. I don't think we'll see a emini trading room fad like we did with daytrading because the buy in is higher(usually 50k minimum acct+monthly desk fees). I don't know if they have these places outside Chicago. Many of the traders are ex floor traders. I think it's definitely worth it if you have the capital.

Snake
 
Originally posted by Snake Plisken
I don't think there are firms that will give you capital to trade more contracts, correct me if I'm wrong. However, there are trading rooms in Chicago for eminis. The advantage is the fortune you save in commissions by leasing a seat. There are people trading for less than $1/side. You also don't have the expense of hooking a T3 line to your house. The margin per/ct can be very low as well if they like your record. I don't think we'll see a emini trading room fad like we did with daytrading because the buy in is higher(usually 50k minimum acct+monthly desk fees). I don't know if they have these places outside Chicago. Many of the traders are ex floor traders. I think it's definitely worth it if you have the capital.

Snake
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There are a couple of places in Chicago that back high volume/low risk traders.
 
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