Prop Firms in NYC with salary, free training, and no programming experience necessary

Quote from Maverick74:

Don, I've always enjoyed reading your posts too and if you go back over the last 2 years you can see I've always praised you as well. Go ahead and check. Do it now! Check!

:)
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With your tongue fully in cheek, thank you Mav, LOL.

Don
 
Just go there and ask them about it. Not just mail them, go and ask, many people don´t even see their emails and do not take seriously the people that communicate through them :) (I include myself in that category btw).

Go and try, it´s better than sitting in your house with a 2k account in some bucket shop wondering why did you not try that prop firm thing?. People by nature will always try to stop you, they think they´re doing their best, but thats only an illusion they draw for themselves.

If you´re a smart person and with potential any good HR guy will see it and try to explore it. If you fail, well, go and try a normal job in some corporation to build a career, there the fancy degrees will serve you well btw lol. And if you still wanna trade by then, put 20k in an account with Echo, Bright, Chimera, Greatpoint, etc and see what can you do with it.






Quote from kmgilroy89:

I don't know why people say Jane Street and SIG aren't proprietary firms.

From Jane Street's website:
Trading
Traders work in teams to seek out and take advantage of pricing inefficiencies, develop models, manage risk, investigate new products, and push into new business areas. Experienced traders mentor newer colleagues, whose responsibilities increase with their capability.

From SIG:
The Susquehanna International Group of Companies (SIG) is a world-leading technology-empowered financial trading firm. Founded in 1987, SIG has grown from an options trading firm on the Philadelphia Stock Exchange to one of the world’s largest privately held financial institutions. Today, with offices around the world, we trade virtually every major financial product and are recognized for our disciplined and quantitative trading approach, and our leading-edge trading systems.

These firms are just more quantitative in their approach. Everyone at these firms probably has take a calculus based probability course instead of taking a random high school graduate.
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Quote from ronin266:

Just go there and ask them about it. Not just mail them, go and ask, many people don´t even see their emails and do not take seriously the people that communicate through them :) (I include myself in that category btw).

Go and try, it´s better than sitting in your house with a 2k account in some bucket shop wondering why did you not try that prop firm thing?. People by nature will always try to stop you, they think they´re doing their best, but thats only an illusion they draw for themselves.

If you´re a smart person and with potential any good HR guy will see it and try to explore it. If you fail, well, go and try a normal job in some corporation to build a career, there the fancy degrees will serve you well btw lol. And if you still wanna trade by then, put 20k in an account with Echo, Bright, Chimera, Greatpoint, etc and see what can you do with it.
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Hmm...ok, lets say I take the train down to 140 Broadway and walk into SIG NYC. Then what do I do? I'm afraid of bothering them and ruining my chances. Perhaps I should call and ask if I could come in and meet somebody first?
 
Quote from kmgilroy89:

Hmm...ok, lets say I take the train down to 140 Broadway and walk into SIG NYC. Then what do I do? I'm afraid of bothering them and ruining my chances. Perhaps I should call and ask if I could come in and meet somebody first?
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LOL.

Ok, do you believe that you can make it in the markets?. Do you believe that you can do all that is needed to train yourself to make money out there?.

Bother them?.

Common, HR people mostly do not do anything at their office, just sits there and play farmville in FB and filling 1 or 2 spreadsheets with some numbers, and then go back to the same thing lol (well they have hard days too, but mostly its what i´ve described to you).

If you don´t believe in yourself how do you expect that someone else will believe in you? lol. The markets are bad out there dude, you will be always be bothering someone taking money away from him. How can you expect to do that with this mentality lol. Even I wouldn´t hire you if you come crawling to me like that :D.

Go to NY and try, or to Chicago, maybe you will be rejected 50 times, but once someone will say to you: Ok, lets give you a try. If you want that chance, you will be willing to move to the city, give up something to that. But try at least. It´s easy for you, I would like to do that myself but I´m in the damn South America LOL, and guess what, it´s fucking cold here right now.

People that may back you, will only try if they see that you have the passion and will to do it. People work that way, in every sphere of human activity.

And don´t expect to receive much good advice here. It´s an internet forum for god´s sake. Maybe there are 10 users that trade professionally around here, but they´re trading most of the time, not posting, selling their services or complaining about stupid things. People that are busy making money will never enter a forum like this, maybe at the beginning gathering some info but you´ll not see them anymore.

Btw, if you go, dont tell the reception people that you want to work with the guy youre trying to see, they will not let you in most of the time, just ask you for your resume. Dress yourself fine, not too formal (that would be obvious for them lol) and invent some excuse to see the HR of the firm.
 
Quote from ronin266:

LOL.

Ok, do you believe that you can make it in the markets?. Do you believe that you can do all that is needed to train yourself to make money out there?.

Bother them?.

Common, HR people mostly do not do anything at their office, just sits there and play farmville in FB and filling 1 or 2 spreadsheets with some numbers, and then go back to the same thing lol (well they have hard days too, but mostly its what i´ve described to you).

If you don´t believe in yourself how do you expect that someone else will believe in you? lol. The markets are bad out there dude, you will be always be bothering someone taking money away from him. How can you expect to do that with this mentality lol. Even I wouldn´t hire you if you come crawling to me like that :D.

Go to NY and try, or to Chicago, maybe you will be rejected 50 times, but once someone will say to you: Ok, lets give you a try. If you want that chance, you will be willing to move to the city, give up something to that. But try at least. It´s easy for you, I would like to do that myself but I´m in the damn South America LOL, and guess what, it´s fucking cold here right now.
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Chile? It's not that I don't believe in my ability to learn how to trade, nor do I think trading is immoral. I care about ruining my chances of getting an interview by doing this. I'm much more confident in my ability to become a great trader then I am dealing with recruiters. In trading if I mess up a trade I can just move on to the next one. If I mess up my chances of getting an interview it could be months before I get another shot at one. Seeing as there are only a handful of firms that I really want to work for in NYC, I really want to give the best impression I can so that I can maximize my chances of an offer.
 
the truth is that getting hired & trained by a true proprietary firm is very difficult
your about 10 years late & the demand & openings are very limited

Keep in mind book smarts is only one part of the equation
even with the proper training with a solid firm the ability to earn
a living as a trader is going to be challenging in many ways

sometimes the smartest guys have the most difficult time in becoming a profitable trader . they often over analyze everything which is counter productive to trading

trading is a mental game with a skillset that is developed over time
no easy shortcuts to becoming a profitable trader , It's a long journey
 
Here's my 2 cents, in case anyone is interested. A lot of traders are in this business as opposed to banking or consulting because of the independence it grants. Because of that, it attracts a lot of entrepreneurial types that want to risk their capital. They generally work to achieve financial independence. When I started in the business, one of the guys on the floor told me two characteristics consist with successful traders is independence and self-reliance.

Listen, it's great if you find a firm willing to train you in their strategy and then back you. If you can not risk your capital, it's a great way to get started in the business. The reason why there aren't many types of firms out there that recruit traders that way is because it didn't pay off. most firms like that went belly up.

The model in place for the prop industry is very similar to any other type of business in the US. the firms buy wholesale and resell to clients. The trader themself needs to be independent and responsible enough to manage the capital. And because of this, a lot of successful traders (as Don and Maverick will confirm) start groups with prop firms or register with a prop because they run their own business.

In the prop industry, you can find up to 99% payout if you shop around. You can't get that when you are backed. The size of the account you trade may be smaller, but successful prop traders can often find BP easy.

There are legal implications of working for someone else. That is, they own all of the work you do there. Trading independently let's you produce your own results and if you're successful, it's never an issue to find capital. Wealthy investors flock to the winners based on their strategy and returns. If you plan on starting your own hedge fund or similar, the prop route allows advantages over retail. There were a lot more advantages before the financial crisis and dodd-frank like loose margin requirements and a lot of available leverage, etc. etc. Nowadays it costs companies more just to maintain their licensing and compliance, so the advantages/disadvantages can be weighed.

Don't get me wrong. If you want a salary or need one, you should try to find something where you can get a salary; however, it's not the industry norm and it limits your future ability to raise capital if you are unable to have ownership of your trading history. The decision is up to you but looking back, I'm glad I trade my own capital.

it's nothing new. For over a century, people have flocked to the exchanges with money in their pocket hoping for a return. The demand is much higher for traders seeking to risk their own capital than it is for firms seeking to risk their capital to train people and employ them. The industry structure right now is a result of supply/demand for leverage and low rates mixed with regulatory burdens which throws a wrench in there, but the country politically is divided and will probably stay that way for a while to come so that won't change.

If you want to get employment trading, you have to do what many on the board have done - go to a good school, keep up your grades and get an MBA. Even after that, a lot of people choose to run their own business because of the freedom it provides. If you want somebody to risk capital on you, you're going to have to risk your capital one way or another. Whether it is by going to school and competing for grades, or bringing capital to the market and competing for liquidity. Either way, this is America and the structure is the result of the free-market capitalist structure.

If you look through the board, a lot of traders have found firms with training that require deposits as low as $1500 dollars and provide licensing sponsorship with insanely low rates. A lot of people choose to try that route because it lets them get their feet wet or participate in the markets without having to make a heavy investment to get employers to risk capital on them. It's ultimately a personal choice, but you do have a choice. It just depends on the path you want to take and the business just happens to attract a lot of people seeking to use their own capital. A lot more than are seeking to make the investment in higher education. Firms cater to the demand. Take it from someone with a BS and an MBA. getting "hired" by a firm is not all its cracked up to be. Yes, they may pay a salary, but that's not what every trader is looking for. Besides, there isn't much real discretionary trading "jobs" left. If you are trading a firms book, you are typically under very strict supervisory and your role is very limited to one particular function/process. If you are seeking the thrill from "steering the ship", you won't get it.

Besides, look at the title of the thread: "Prop Firms in NYC with salary, free training, and no programming experience necessary"

The OP is admitting that they don't have the experience or skill necessary to complete the function but want to be trained, with a salary and be taught all of what they should already be coming into the business with. You have to be a bit more realistic about how businesses work. If you do have capital and decide to risk it on training someone and then risking them walking away with your strategies, thousands upon thousands would be willing to take the chance with no risk to them and a guaranteed downside. The problem is the numbers don't add up and it's not scale-able. Most companies that operate in this manner are small hedge funds and private equity groups. The jobs are few and far in between and the style usually isn't transferable to a retail account. The environment in the industry has gotten very tough and it's hard for people to take risks with all the uncertainty.

Just 2 cents.
 
In part that is true, but you´re only viewing it from the perspective of not qualified people. It might be true for them, and in 99% they do not have any chance to get backed (without a record anyway, because if they have a couple of positive months there would be a lot of "investors" willing to back them up).

But for young people that have the potential, the talent and the guts, there would be always be a place to go, they just need to search a little for it.

I suspect that you have some link to the business, maybe with some WTS branch, and it´s ok to promote the business and give people the opportunity to try themselves in the markets. But telling people to not try anything because things are that way, isn´t very ethical nor right. There are a lot of talented young ppl lurking here, that is still in college, that are only graduating form school,and they still have the chances, maybe not a lot , but they have them.

Free training can be found, programming experience is easy to get (it´s not hard, tedious, but not hard at all if you have some gray matter in your head and develop a logical approach) and the rest of the stuff can be achieved with some time. Prop offices have strict rules, maybe 2-10% of the initial groups stay in the firm after the training, but the ones who made it have nice perspectives.

You cannot say that firms that back their traders do rarely search for new trainees. They need to be hiring continuously to replace the traders who leave on to find a better payout or got too old to keep staring at the monitr 14 hors every day, or made enough money to retire, they need new people to see new opportunities in changing markets and they always want to expand their business. If they wouldn´t do that they would become another hedge fund and die slowly once that their intraday edges start to fail (I´ve heard a lot of prop offices that closed when decimalization arrieved, when bullets where taken away, when rule 123c was changed).
 
The main reason why I want to work for a firm with a salary has nothing to do with the money. I want great training. From my perspective a company that invests in its employees is saying we can make a winning trader. A company that charges for its training program doesn't care as much about its employees training, because if their trainees perform poorly they still make money off of them. Becoming a winning trader is my number one priority.
 
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