Prop Firms in NYC with salary, free training, and no programming experience necessary

Quote from t0pd0g:

There is a reason there are at least 20 posts just like this...and the reason is that these positions don't really exist. And if they do they are very difficult to get. First, you definitely need an advanced college degree and probably one from a top or Ivy league school. Second, you will be given intense math exams and need to score in the 99th percentile. And third, you need to be on their trading floor...so most of these positions are in NY or Chicago. I'm not saying it's impossible...just improbable.

And to call the prop model where you put up your own money a "bucket shop" is ridiculous. That's like saying E-Trade or Scottrade is a bucket shop. There is no difference except at a prop firm you pay less and can get more BP and don't have to deal with PDT rule (although you might have a profit split).

And to also say they are ran by failed traders is also thoughtless. For example, the principles of Bright and Hold were (and might still be) excellent traders.

Everyone wants something for nothing. If you want a trading job at a top firm get a degree (preferably and MBA or PHD) in finance or mathematics at a top school...otherwise, save up enough capital and fund an account.

TD
More...

Bight trading is almost like a retail broker, only with cheaper fees :). HB mostly focus on backed traders with profit split. I call the rest arcades/bucket shops cause they lack of the legal frame to be called otherwise, a part from the redflags that some of them may arise.

Well having a MBA and PHD will not give you anything in trading, most part of that are only papers, I´ve an MBA for example,and it is only useful to prove that I can achieve a goal if I want it, nothing else, like sport background + it adds nicely to my salary in any job :D.

About the something for nothing thing, you mean the money?. Well, if you count that going to the office to help traders, do their boring stuff almost for free for a year or more, or trading without profits for the training period (that can take a lot of time), apart from that learning a lot of theory , etc by yourself is nothing, something is really wrong with you. One spend a lot of money, work, sleepless nights, stress for something that may never come, that´s not nothing lol.

The biggest corporations will have you training for them and will pay you good salaries at the same time and will offer you a great job opportunity with career possibilities after the year of training. So tell me that it´s something for nothing lol.

The ones that want something for nothing, are those bucket shops that I´m talking about. Because they want to receive profitable traders to take a split with them, at the same time not doing ANYTHING to be useful for the trader. They do not take part in any of the costs of doing business, they will not train, will not help with any expense, will not do anything. And will overcharge you for the fees (all of them: software, market, etc) and take a part of your profit. So come and tell me that the trainee business model is bs lol, comparing to the arcade one, they are mother teresa LOL.

Of course you will need to have a head upon your shoulders to get in, but that is the same for ANY sphere. Sorry for the stupid people that wasn´t able to get a college degree, or even to finish school :D.
 
Quote from t0pd0g:

There is a reason there are at least 20 posts just like this...and the reason is that these positions don't really exist. And if they do they are very difficult to get. First, you definitely need an advanced college degree and probably one from a top or Ivy league school. Second, you will be given intense math exams and need to score in the 99th percentile. And third, you need to be on their trading floor...so most of these positions are in NY or Chicago. I'm not saying it's impossible...just improbable.

And to call the prop model where you put up your own money a "bucket shop" is ridiculous. That's like saying E-Trade or Scottrade is a bucket shop. There is no difference except at a prop firm you pay less and can get more BP and don't have to deal with PDT rule (although you might have a profit split).

And to also say they are ran by failed traders is also thoughtless. For example, the principles of Bright and Hold were (and might still be) excellent traders.

Everyone wants something for nothing. If you want a trading job at a top firm get a degree (preferably and MBA or PHD) in finance or mathematics at a top school...otherwise, save up enough capital and fund an account.

TD
More...

I went to UConn, but I'm really good at math. I got a 790 on the quantitative part of the GRE. I read the SIG interview questions on Glassdoor and didn't think that they were hard. I just need an interview.
 
Quote from EvOTraderV2:

that's a very big misconception. A lot of prop firm owners are very successful themselves. Many traders, myself included, choose to trade discretionary because the payouts are higher and the commissions are lower.

if you knew you were profitable, would you rather keep nearly all of your profits or give half of it away? the no-capital upfront model is mostly for people who can't sustain themselves independently and need some type of downside. I hate to put it that way, but that seems to be the major difference between the two. The success rate is much more dependent on the trader and their skill set than any training program. Nobody can train you to perceive the market, you have to learn to see it through your own eyes. If you're using a firm's strategy it's going to be difficult to walk away and start trading that elsewhere. There's 2 sides to every coin.

not to be rude, but it is a bit naive to think all the traders at discretionary trading firms are at a bucket shop. I bet some of the firms you mentioned have just as much if not more 6-7 figure traders.
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" the no-capital upfront model is mostly for people who can't sustain themselves independently and need some type of downside."

Actually....this is about as wrong as one could be. The no-capital upfront traders are ones who have proven thmesleves and have gotten the trust of bigger firms to back them with real size. Would you rather trade 3-5 Emini's and keep 100%, or trade 100-300 and get 50% ?


I'm not saying ALL retail guys/small prop guys aren't succesful....but if they had a choice of trading their own capital or getting backing (with a big/legit firm)....a majority of them would take the backing. The problem is the days of getting backed are not nearly as easy as they used to be, so more and more guys have to trade small accounts with their own capital.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hold, Bright, WTS, Echo all have the same legal framework. They are all SEC registered BDs. Some might trade on the PHLX, or CBSX, or Chicago Exchange...but they are all SEC registered entities that have a Finop, annual audit, compliance officer, etc. Tell me why one would be a bucket shop? Because they have some smaller traders as compared to Bright? Bright is a great firm...one I have recommended many times in the past, but even Bright in the past has brought down their minimums to $10,000 and I have even heard of $5,000 (although the minimum is back to $25,000). On the otherside of the coin I know there are some big hitters at WTS that have six figures up (as well as many traders that have $2,500). So tell me...what makes one a bucket shop?

Congrats on your MBA...but don't minimize the power it has. It will get you interviews and open doors for you....even though it is just a piece of paper...but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. They don't teach you to trade in grad school, but it will get you the interview that others can't. Not fair, but that's life. Some of the best traders I know didn't even go to college. They started at "money up" prop firms and got their education from the market and capitalized on it.

When you join a "money up" firm you are most definitely getting something. The ability to potentially control a large account with considerably less capital than if you traded retail. The prop firm is taking a huge risk on you. Giving you $100,000 of BP with a $5,000 capital contribution is significant. They are giving you a shot at being a trader because you have almost no chance of being hired on a trading floor with a big salary. As far as training, some will train you....just make sure it's something worthwhile.




Quote from ronin266:

Bight trading is almost like a retail broker, only with cheaper fees :). HB mostly focus on backed traders with profit split. I call the rest arcades/bucket shops cause they lack of the legal frame to be called otherwise, a part from the redflags that some of them may arise.

Well having a MBA and PHD will not give you anything in trading, most part of that are only papers, I´ve an MBA for example,and it is only useful to prove that I can achieve a goal if I want it, nothing else, like sport background + it adds nicely to my salary in any job :D.

About the something for nothing thing, you mean the money?. Well, if you count that going to the office to help traders, do their boring stuff almost for free for a year or more, or trading without profits for the training period (that can take a lot of time), apart from that learning a lot of theory , etc by yourself is nothing, something is really wrong with you. One spend a lot of money, work, sleepless nights, stress for something that may never come, that´s not nothing lol.

The biggest corporations will have you training for them and will pay you good salaries at the same time and will offer you a great job opportunity with career possibilities after the year of training. So tell me that it´s something for nothing lol.

The ones that want something for nothing, are those bucket shops that I´m talking about. Because they want to receive profitable traders to take a split with them, at the same time not doing ANYTHING to be useful for the trader. They do not take part in any of the costs of doing business, they will not train, will not help with any expense, will not do anything. And will overcharge you for the fees (all of them: software, market, etc) and take a part of your profit. So come and tell me that the trainee business model is bs lol, comparing to the arcade one, they are mother teresa LOL.

Of course you will need to have a head upon your shoulders to get in, but that is the same for ANY sphere. Sorry for the stupid people that wasn´t able to get a college degree, or even to finish school :D.
More...
 
Quote from t0pd0g:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hold, Bright, WTS, Echo all have the same legal framework. They are all SEC registered BDs. Some might trade on the PHLX, or CBSX, or Chicago Exchange...but they are all SEC registered entities that have a Finop, annual audit, compliance officer, etc. Tell me why one would be a bucket shop? Because they have some smaller traders as compared to Bright? Bright is a great firm...one I have recommended many times in the past, but even Bright has brought down their minimums to $10,000 and I have even heard of $5,000. On the otherside of the coin I know there are some big hitters at WTS that have six figures up (as well as many traders that have $2,500). So tell me...what makes one a bucket shop?

Congrats on your MBA...but don't minimize the power it has. It will get you interviews and open doors for you....even though it is just a piece of paper...but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. They don't teach you to trade in grad school, but it will get you the interview that others can't. Not fair, but that's life. Some of the best traders I know didn't even go to college. They started at "money up" prop firms and got their education from the market and capitalized on it.

When you join a "money up" firm you are most definitely getting something. The ability to potentially control a large account with considerably less capital than if you traded retail. The prop firm is taking a huge risk on you. Giving you $100,000 of BP with a $5,000 capital contribution is significant. They are giving you a shot at being a trader because you have almost no chance of being hired on a trading floor with a big salary. As far as training, some will train you....just make sure it's something worthwhile.
More...

Bright is a 25k minimum now and he mentioned that might be going higher in the future, not lower.
 
Mav, I edited my post to reflect that....don't want to get on Don's bad side.


Quote from Maverick74:

Bright is a 25k minimum now and he mentioned that might be going higher in the future, not lower.
More...
 
t0pd0g, I didn´t say that the firms you mentioned are bucket shops, I was talking about the small stuff that´s out there, that trade trough that firms sometimes.

Half a world have an MBA, it´s just a piece of paper. It costs some money and a year of "education" but mostly it doesn´t give you anything more than a paper with your name that you can present at interviews and show your friends to compete who have the longest dick lol. Truly, an MBA doesn´t open to you no more doors that you want to open by yourself.

Of course there are "people" (for not calling them otherwise) that think that this "paper" has some "powers" and only take interview with the people that have it. But i´m telling you, i´ve friends with a PhD, that aren´t smarter than most people. Having a "degree" only means that you had the money, the time and will to sit a couple of hours/day digging info from books, talking to "intelligent" people and writing a long paper. Nothing else.

Note: I´m talking about the majority of the cases. There are "serious" colleges, and "serious" people that do real stuff to obtain their degrees but mostly are just people that don´t know what else to do after college, or need the paper to pretend to some concrete job where it´s needed.
 
This is the point I'm trying to make about having an advanced college degree from a top university: This is from Jane Street website:

http://www.janestreet.com/apply/calendar.php

And from SIG:

http://www.sig.com/Careeropps.aspx?...SiteId=5056&Function=LinkQuery&LinkId=2381342




Quote from kmgilroy89:

Jane Street- Usually considered the best.

SIG- From what I gather this is the 2nd best, but I don't know big they are in NYC. Most people seem to work in Philly.

Trillium Trading- Pays $500 a week I believe, not as much as Jane Street or SIG, but much better than nothing.

Chimera Securities- Does not pay during training period, but pays salary after training period.

FNYS- Considered one of the best, at least a couple of years ago, but I heard on WSO they were going under. I don't know how true this is.

Any others?
More...
 
Quote from t0pd0g:

This is the point I'm trying to make about having an advanced college degree from a top university: This is from Jane Street website:

http://www.janestreet.com/apply/calendar.php

And from SIG:

http://www.sig.com/Careeropps.aspx?...SiteId=5056&Function=LinkQuery&LinkId=2381342
More...

Topdog, not sure you understand this, but those are not really trading jobs you posted. Nothing wrong with those jobs, but you and everyone on ET need to sit down and figure out exactly what it is you want to do. Do you want to be a quant, trader, market maker, analyst, portfolio manager, etc.

I think a lot of guys just throw the entire kitchen sink under the trading umbrella when in fact, very few if any of these jobs are actually trading jobs.
 
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