Prop firm asking for source code and strategy??

Quote from bone:

" I doubt most of the "good fills" I see nowadays are obtained by manual traders... "

Again, this is not true. Please study an exchange's order matching algorithm before commenting further. Resting limit orders are filled according to timestamp for FIFO, and even with PRORATA a designated allotment of resting limit orders are filled according to timestamp BEFORE volume distribution takes place.

Yes I know that. My point is just that the speed at which limit orders are sent to get first in line at a level after it traded , or cancelled when an execution is not desirable ( the tail end Charlie retail sucker fill) suggest those good fills are obtained by ATS, unregistered or even registered without priority in the queue.

I might be wrong. I know some manual traders place orders all over the ladder early in the day to get an advantageous place in the queue and they might have a part of the cake as well, but still...
 
Quote from EricP:

Wowza. Where to begin? ok, maybe you aren't a shill for Don, my apologies.

"Patents" for trading systems? Really. Do you think that's what hedge funds do? Goldman Sachs? Not a prayer. Intellectual property such as trading systems are kept very tightly controlled as Trade Secrets (propriety information), and not shared with anyone. I assume you must be aware that a patent application must fully and publically disclose the 'invention' (I know, I've been through the process). That's precisely the opposite of what the successful trader would ever want to do.

"Stop beating a dead horse?" There is a discussion going on concerning "Prop firms asking for source code and strategy." If this doesn't interest you, move along and find a discussion topic that is more to your liking. Alternatively, contact Baron about becoming a moderator, and maybe he'll give you the power to close threads that you aren't interested in.

"SEC regulations" on this topic? Perhaps you would care to share details of your knowledge on this topic, by posting SEC links and quotations that support your views. That could be helpful in this discussion.

Non-disclosure agreements? If you don't trust the firm that you are working for, then an NDA is not worth the paper it's written on. Ask the independent traders that had accounts with Team Trading or VCM how well their signed contracts have held up.

"OP doesn't have a whole lot of alternative prop firms that are willing to accept him?" I don't have a clue, but I don't see any evidence from his posts that would support this wild assumption.

"Stop beating up on this dude that has nothing to do with this 'firm' in question?" There is nothing to suggest whether his 'dude' has anything to do with the firm "in question" or not. Why do you assume he does or does not?

Sounds to me that you have little knowledge pertaining to the topic of this thread, and prefer to make baseless assumptions and unsupported conclusions. I would suggest you might be more productive asking questions (if you are interested in information), not readinging this thread (if you are uninterested in the topic) or contributing something of value to the topic if you have any to contribute. Other than clarifying that you don't know Don, the rest of your post merely seems to inform us that you don't like the topic and are not interested in further discussion. Fine. For the rest of us, it's a serious topic.

I'm done with this topic, and will go back into hiding now. Have the last word to your satisfaction, if you please, but don't be fooled into thinking that this is an insignificant or unimportant topic. For a clueless or unsuccessful trader, it is not applicable. But, for a successful systems trader, it is one of the most important things in his mind when choosing a broker. From your comments, I assume it does not apply to you.


Every time you quote something I say, just to make a response to it makes you look sad mate. It seems to me you want to look right. If I wasn't interested in the topic at hand, I wouldn't have wasted 30 minutes reading the bickering. I was anticipating some good information. Half of what's on ET these days are arguing idiots who think they're smart, and provide very little information, or practical information. If you're stressed from a losing day get a drink, and don't take it out on ET, you seem like a girl from High School who feels the need to skew everything into your own frame of reference. When in reality you're misinterpreting most of whatever I say. But, then again people who mis-interpret what others say, and stuff words in their mouth. Tend to do the same thing with charts. They mis-interpret everything a chart says than they shout at the market. Hey, hey, take it easy now.

Last time I checked MACD is something I don't pay for. But, then again since you're strategy is supposedly worth more royalties than most of the main stream strategies I suppose you consider yourself intelligent. If you patent it you may be able to earn more money off of it. I was simply listing the alternatives. Not a either, or. I consider the many options one can take. Whereas you look for what may not work. Thus your posts are irrelevant. I said if you want to work with this firm, but don't completely trust them. Than use the NDA, otherwise don't work with them. If you feel the strategy is that valuable go get it patented, and sell rights to use it. Etc. etc.
Also I am not an attorney so I wouldn't bother with finding out SEC laws, and etc. That's up to the OP's person in mind. That person's choice follows. Legal consultation, looking for a new firm, patents, or drafting legal documentation like an NDA.


If I were to counter every single quote you said, and miss represented. I'd be the idiot for wasting my time. Because All it would lead to is more bickering, and wasted time listening to a wannabe trader. If I countered every response you would counter every response with more childish miss representing crap. I've met successful traders, and trust me they don't act anything like you. They know when they read crap, and this thread is full of it. We went so off topic, that we ended up in a feud of two people arguing about ethics. Obviously I don't care, none of you traders told this OP. About a prop desk that doesn't take your source code. That being said none of you were much of a help to this OP's original intention. Thus you've wasted the time of many people by having us gloss over a pile of crap, and that was my original point all along. :p
 
Quote from bone:

If you're successful, what's stopping someone from building a 'shadowing' program that duplicates your orders and fills within milliseconds?

Perhaps the best (and safe?) strategy that prop firms to use, just a guess. Legal? With 100%/0% terms, how would they make any good money? Any comments?
 
"suggest those good fills are obtained by ATS, unregistered or even registered without priority in the queue."

Nope. Wrong again. Contingent orders have the lowest fill priority in the queue by exchange designation, and are filled by timestamp as well.
 
OK. No problem.

Where is the rule on CME website that indicates that TAG 50 ATS only submit contingent orders? I can't find it.
 
Quote from alexandercho:

If I were to counter every single quote you said, and miss represented. I'd be the idiot for wasting my time. Because All it would lead to is more bickering, and wasted time listening to a wannabe trader. If I countered every response you would counter every response with more childish miss representing crap. I've met successful traders, and trust me they don't act anything like you. They know when they read crap, and this thread is full of it. We went so off topic, that we ended up in a feud of two people arguing about ethics. Obviously I don't care, none of you traders told this OP. About a prop desk that doesn't take your source code. That being said none of you were much of a help to this OP's original intention. Thus you've wasted the time of many people by having us gloss over a pile of crap, and that was my original point all along. :p

I think we have a language barrier, as you are making no sense to me whatsoever (and you seem not to understand what myself or others are saying. I wish you well.

I did think this was an informative thread you started: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176961 :-)
 
"Perhaps the best (and safe?) strategy that prop firms to use, just a guess. Legal? Any comments?"

**WARNING; gross generalization, completely misrepresentative of our fine sponsors on ET and the securities industry in general. Please know that the appropriate regulatory authorities are maintaining vigilance and all is well.**

From my personal experience and observation, I can say with a great deal of certainty that prop firms will go to the most extraordinary extents imaginable to maximize and leverage any hint of profit in their operations, whether the trader realizes it or not. And even when the trader realizes it, the prop firm will find a way to take more of whatever the trader manages to retain. If you are a profitable trader that stands out compared to the masses and worse yet are paid on a W-2 as an employee of a prop firm, and even worse still the expenses for your charting packages and software are deducted from your account but paid by the firm, please rest assured that your statements and your trading platform fill logs and your charting package and the rest of your IP sitting on those PC's managed by the IT staff will indeed find it's way to firm principals who trade their own accounts, and quite possibly to firm 'favorites'. And when you leave that firm, your shit will get distributed some more.

Enjoy.

Oh, the shenanigans I have seen and heard about are amazing.
 
Quote from OddTrader:

Perhaps the best (and safe?) strategy that prop firms to use, just a guess. Legal? With 100%/0% terms, how would they make any good money? Any comments?

Please don't avoid the issue by saying whatever you like to say, if you don't try to intentionally misunderstand the underlying isuue as you want to.

I now plan to open a prop firm, a llc. I recruit traders as the firm's employees to trade for my firm. All of them are required to sign a well-prepared legally legal contract with my terms written by the best legal professionals.

Can I call this a prop firm? If not, why not?

What's wrong with that?
 
Quote from EricP:

I think we have a language barrier, as you are making no sense to me whatsoever (and you seem not to understand what myself or others are saying. I wish you well.

I did think this was an informative thread you started: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176961 :-)

Interestingly enough that was when I was getting into options trading as a beginner. Probably wasn't the greatest start, but I figured out a lot of things from that experience. But, then again only people like Eric would dig into a persons past to talk crap about them. Again that was then, and this is now. If you don't understand English that's fine. Again you just proved my point. You pointed me into another argument that had nothing to do with the point at hand. Regardless of the case, you yourself said you were gonna give me the last response. Yet again you feel the need to reply, and I predicted that within my own statement, and you completed it. I just predicted another troll on the ET forums. *sighs* they never end do they?
 
Quote from Dan Dierdorf:

The only obvious conclusion from this thread:
Propseeker is a douche bag.
and yet, i managed to resist the urge to name myself after dierdorf...

fk irony though i guess, huh.
 
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