Proof of How Universal Mask Wearing Stops Covid Spread ?

[Tsing Tao]

Compare their COVID spread rates to areas not wearing masks during the spike. Imagine how bad COVID would be without wearing masks during a spike (as science has proven). The idiocy you keep pushing that "they had a spike so masks don't work is absurd nonsense" -- there are plenty other reasons that drive spikes; new variants, seasonal indoor time, other re-openings (e.g. re-opening restaurants, schools, etc.) and vaccination levels.

Once again the proper way to study the actual impact of mask mandates is in the 3 to 40 days time period after they are imposed. Preferably with an equivalent area without mask mandates or lower usage that can be used as a control group. Other variables must also be accounted for which impact the study such as re-openings of restaurants, etc. This is how proper scientific research and methods operate.

So you want us to just accept your hypothesis that areas that had a spike would be worse if they hadn't had mask mandates?

Does that mean that areas that have almost no or very low infection rates and don't have mask mandates would be negative case rates or something if they had mask mandates?

Yet another failure of critical thinking.

The issue isn't whether the spike would be worse, it is that there was a spike at all. If mask mandates work so well there shouldn't be a spike. And those spikes shouldn't be worse than places without mandates when equalized for population. And they frequently are.

This doesn't mean masks don't work. It means mandates don't work. The equation (if we can call it that) of what defines an effective response to a virus contagion is an extensive one. Simply implying that if X (lockdown) = YES and Y (mask mandate) = YES then Virus Spread = NO is just plain stupidity and simple minded thinking.

Pre-COVID, this was universally accepted as WRONG by institutions like the CDC and the WHO. And then it was politicized and everything changed.

 

[jem]

I thought masks prevented the spread?
I thought you said you were not using models?


If you can't show that that the spread went down consistently in absolute terms after mask mandates..almost everywhere...
all you have is conjecture based on models.


your 30 to 40 day statement is patently absurd.
What if your mask mandate went into effect as you were hitting widespread immunity or warmer outdoor weather?

Compare their COVID spread rates to areas not wearing masks during the spike. Imagine how bad COVID would be without wearing masks during a spike (as science has proven). The idiocy you keep pushing that "they had a spike so masks don't work is absurd nonsense" -- there are plenty other reasons that drive spikes; new variants, seasonal indoor time, other re-openings (e.g. re-opening restaurants, schools, etc.) and vaccination levels.

Once again the proper way to study the actual impact of mask mandates is in the 3 to 40 days time period after they are imposed. Preferably with an equivalent area without mask mandates or lower usage that can be used as a control group. Other variables must also be accounted for which impact the study such as re-openings of restaurants, etc. This is how proper scientific research and methods operate.

 

[UsualName]

Yes... and this in part because there was so much bullshit put out by the governments that was not based on real data.


The first order of business to get the public on board... is data... facts and intelligent guidelines base on those facts.

There was no fucking way you were going to get half of the public on board when you had morons running around acting like you we had to be scared of other people outdoors.

Yet many times I was confronted on hiking trails by morons telling me to wear my mask.
I had to tell them that the country rule was... if you maintain six feet you don't have to wear one.

One woman in particular went crazy.... when I told her the rules.

She started swinging her walking stick at me. I told her she just risked her health by getting inside droplet range.
She went even more nuts. I looked at her husband and said if you are so fearful why are you out here?

Another time... as my son and I were walking up... without our masks... a group told the ranger.

The ranger knew I hiked there all the time. He explained there is one spot where the trial was not 10 feet wide and that most likely we were walking around that section.


When have crazy uninformed people and non data based laws you are going to have compliance issues.

----


Closing down beaches and parks and hiking trails was obviously insane.
Demanding masks be worn outdoors was not data based.

So therefore you idea of basic compliance and data... most likely do not agree.

Had the morons in charge... shared the data and said things such as...
the high risk have to protect themselves even in their homes.
That masks don't protect the wearer..
That healthy you kids can go to school but unhealthy kids can stay home...

We would not have had morons running around shaming far more informed people.

Ok. Take that up with California then. I don’t live there. People don’t really wear masks outdoors where I live.

 

[jem]

I did not see this as I wrote my response...

Well said.

So you want us to just accept your hypothesis that areas that had a spike would be worse if they hadn't had mask mandates?

Does that mean that areas that have almost no or very low infection rates and don't have mask mandates would be negative case rates or something if they had mask mandates?

Yet another failure of critical thinking.

The issue isn't whether the spike would be worse, it is that there was a spike at all. If mask mandates work so well there shouldn't be a spike. And those spikes shouldn't be worse than places without mandates when equalized for population. And they frequently are.

This doesn't mean masks don't work. It means mandates don't work. The equation (if we can call it that) of what defines an effective response to a virus contagion is an extensive one. Simply implying that if X (lockdown) = YES and Y (mask mandate) = YES then Virus Spread = NO is just plain stupidity and simple minded thinking.

Pre-COVID, this was universally accepted as WRONG by institutions like the CDC and the WHO. And then it was politicized and everything changed.

 

[jem]

The individual law or mandate is not the point I am making.

you need to think larger. If you are going to blame non compliance you need to understand that compliance needs rules that make sense or heavy enforcement.

Rules based on data which make sense are going to get far more compliance that mandates which do not. .



Ask cops about limit lines when views around the corners are obstructed.
Most people role past the limit line and stop when they get a sufficient view of oncoming traffic. (that is a violation in many states but people do it anyway)

A few do stop at the limit line for the full amount of time... and then roll forward...But not many.

We could discuss non compliance with stupid laws for days.
We could discuss how the bell curve for traffic speed is frequently above the traffic limit...

But... you know compliance relies upon smart laws or heavy enforcement of bad laws.

Ok. Take that up with California then. I don’t live there. People don’t really wear masks outdoors where I live.

 

[UsualName]

The point I am making is that if you want consistent compliance you have to make rules based on data and explain them.

Moronic mandates are not going to get compliance from people smart enough to know to better.

Ask cops about limit lines when views on corners are obstructed.
Most people role past the limit line to get a view of oncoming traffic.

A few do stop at the limit line for the full amount of time... and then roll forward...
But not many.

Again, the restrictions where you live are different than where I live. Try to understand you complaining about life in California to me is actually useless.

My point was always that the Asian countries did the best job at preventing spread. The data is there. They have compliance with basic preventive measures including mask wearing, hygiene and distancing. They never really had to impose restrictions because there was no juvenile arguments over best practices.

We argued over this stuff and Ovid ran through America. Not only that we suffered great economic and loss of life. All because people want to argue whether or not a mask prevents spread. It’s just dumb and was never worth it. Just wear the mask.

 

[jem]

Try to think bigger picture rather than local.
you see you are being the moron I am talking about.

Why the fuck should anyone be forced to wear a mask outdoors?
When you make stupid rules... it hurts compliance with all the rules.

Don't you get it?

Outdoor masks mandates... were going to have tons of non compliance because there is no evidence of statistically significant spread outdoors.

Therefore... you are completely misguided.

Again, the restrictions where you live are different than where I live. Try to understand you complaining about life in California to me is actually useless.

My point was always that the Asian countries did the best job at preventing spread. The data is there. They have compliance with basic preventive measures including mask wearing, hygiene and distancing. They never really had to impose restrictions because there was no juvenile arguments over best practices.

We argued over this stuff and Ovid ran through America. Not only that we suffered great economic and loss of life. All because people want to argue whether or not a mask prevents spread. It’s just dumb and was never worth it. Just wear the mask.

 

[Ricter]

We argued over this stuff and Ovid ran through America.

Earplugs help prevent the spread of poetry.

 

[UsualName]

Try to think bigger picture rather than local.
you see you are being the moron I am talking about.

Why the fuck should anyone be forced to wear a mask outdoors?
When you make stupid rules... it hurts compliance with all the rules.

Don't you get it?

Outdoor masks mandates... were going to have tons of non compliance because there is no evidence of statistically significant spread outdoors.

Therefore... you are completely misguided.

First of all I wouldn’t care if I had to wear a mask outdoors because I’m an adult. Second of all we don’t have it here, or at least I don’t think we do because no one wears a mask outdoors.

Lastly, your claim that this anti mask crusade you’re on is based on an outdoor mandate is a lie. You’ve argued against masks from every angle. This is your latest angle.[/QUOTE]

 

[jem]

1. The point of how this started... was compliance.
You may wear a mask outdoors if you wish...
But if you wish compliance from non drones... then have data to back it up.


2. How emotional and irrational you are...
there are virtually zero documented cases of spread outdoors after 150 million cases of Covid... we certainly have not seen statistically meaningful documented outdoor spread.

And now we see doctors and even the new york times stating there is no reason to wear a mask outdoors for normal activity...

and you still "believe" I am wrong.

First of all I wouldn’t care if I had to wear a mask outdoors because I’m an adult. Second of all we don’t have it here, or at least I don’t think we do because no one wears a mask outdoors.

Lastly, your claim that this anti mask crusade you’re on is based on an outdoor mandate is a lie. You’ve argued against masks from every angle. This is your latest angle.