This is quite real, though perhaps not as dramatic as this sounds. The good tech jobs are indeed going to India and China, or their people are brought here on special visas. There is no long term future for technology jobs for Americans. The cost of living here is just too high. Offshore projects currently have a high failure rate, but the labor cost is so much lower that companies will eventually get it right. A few jobs (e.g. national security) will stay here, but the opportunity is gone.
Programming + Trading = career path ?
- Thread starter Detonator
- Start date
We have individuals and groups who have made some pretty cool arrangements with solid programmers. Including, but not limited to, financial backing and training on trading, FWIW.
Don
What exactly is your current level of expertise/training in either field Detonator?
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An excellent link was posted with a top-tier university level educational program that could probably put you the path to success in a professional arena if you want to seriously pursue the programming option.
Whereas, if you are going it on your own you will need to piece together an education which at least touches on many of the subjects mentioned to create a well-rounded education.
Regards,
JJ
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An excellent link was posted with a top-tier university level educational program that could probably put you the path to success in a professional arena if you want to seriously pursue the programming option.
Whereas, if you are going it on your own you will need to piece together an education which at least touches on many of the subjects mentioned to create a well-rounded education.
Regards,
JJ
The wage effect on US programmers from China + Indian competition is minimal. Wages in Los Angeles for programmers are up 30% or so from just a few years ago and are higher even adjusting for inflation than during the tech bubble. Programmer wage growth is still just as strong today as it was the last few decades.
I think it will slow down to average wage growth sometime in the next few decades, but I think in terms of # of jobs it will still by high and maybe continue to grow, to be honest. That said, having niches/specializations can work to your advantage both in pricing power and job stability. This includes combining programming with trading, programming with management, etc.
JimmyJam -
I'm more of a trader than a programmer, but I'm thinking of getting deeper in the programming field.
While my ultimate goal remains to be a full time trader, a not distant second would be to work in the finance world as a programmer as I would still be close to the market action I love.
I'm more of a trader than a programmer, but I'm thinking of getting deeper in the programming field.
While my ultimate goal remains to be a full time trader, a not distant second would be to work in the finance world as a programmer as I would still be close to the market action I love.
6 months ago I left a job at a hedge fund as a developer to pursue other interests. Whilst it is indeed true that outsourcing to india saves time and money in reality, depending on the bank/fund there really isnt as much work that can realisitcally be outsourced. A small-to-mid sized hedge fund without the necessary in-house expertise to develop a particular module will no doubt go to india. But what the industry lacks is programmers with a real understanding of how the markets work. Whilst large banks are structured in such a way that much of the time, the grunts require minimal financial knowledge but the amount of time saved dealing with developers who don't need to be spoon fed can most def have a substiantial dollar value.
im telling you, learn fix like the back of your hand, and i mean all order types and how and why they are used, will make you a good trading desk's dream come true.
fix will set you apart from most other programmers interested in working in trading, and fix is the bottom layer of the transaction technology in most markets.
plus C++, perl, and at this point its pretty much assumed you can hack java
fix will set you apart from most other programmers interested in working in trading, and fix is the bottom layer of the transaction technology in most markets.
plus C++, perl, and at this point its pretty much assumed you can hack java
Cool.
As has been previously mentioned, it's more difficult to find traders who know how to program than it is to find programmers who know how to trade.
So to get you started, take a look at this guy's website:
Learn to Program Series with John Smiley
... I recommend the C++ and C# Series, but then again, I already have databases under my belt and a pretty good understanding of VB as well. When you've got those under your belt, take a look at this book, it's actually written by one of the professors at the university that was mentioned.
Building Automated Trading Systems
It's a ton of work.
Best Regards (and good luck),
JJ
it takes a long time to be strong at development (IMO 10+ yrs). and developing trading systems (realtime reliable network code) is one of the most challenging areas which is why you see nice pay. Another area is quantitative development where you need to know your math as well as solid programming. Stay away from anything IT related or vocational (task oriented) thinking. There's a big difference between computer science and IT grunt work. As far as outsourcing, I have heard about it but not experienced it myself. Trading firms are always looking for developers...most exchange traded contracts are automated by someone you know.