Proflogic method - successful?

downtickboy · May 11, 2005

I just wanted to see if anyone has used Proflogic's trading method and having some success with it trading it in real time. I have seen a few posts of his and he seems to know what he is talking about but the results page on his website looks rather unrealistic.

I am always open to learning new things if they are legit. You can also PM instead of posting. I don't want this to become a bash thing (not saying there is anything to bash, but know what can happen in a public forum) and would like some honest feedback.

downtickboy · May 11, 2005

Wow I thought I would have had at least a couple of responses. I will give this one more try with an elevator ride back up to the top of the list.

electron · May 11, 2005

Quote from downtickboy:

Wow I thought I would have had at least a couple of responses.

Because you asked a wrong question. If you had asked: 'Is Jana trading this method?' you would have gotten a whole bunch of answers.

downtickboy · May 11, 2005

Duey Decimal · May 11, 2005

seems to be a moving target.

I spoke to someone that "trained" with him for HOURS over personal telephone sessions. (I will say this -- he seems to be very generous with his time. He does not charge extra for the sessions over the $300 that he charges to join his room.) According to the person I spoke to, he was constantly changing his methods. Switching to this chart and then to that. He seems to have moved from trading off a 777-tick chart to trading almost exclusively off a 98-tick chart, or something like that. It's not only the chart frequency that he changed; he's changed the whole methodolgy numerous times. From what this person tells me, he followed along in the new "chat room" for a while, and it seemed to him that no one there was actually making money, with the exception of one trader, who seemed to constantly post winning trades (I don't recall his moniker), and when this person PM'd him, the guy told him that yes he's making good money, but he's not using ProfLogic's method at all. Then he says that he wants to form his own group (one charletan to another??).

I too am a member of ProfLogic's website, although I haven't researched his method thorougly enough (especially through all its evolutions) to know if it makes money today. I highly doubt it. This is for sure: The trades he posts on his website (you know, where he never has a losing trade) are based on hindsight and subjectivity, and, as he sort of alludes to, could never be repeated by even the most orthodox follower of his system.

Having said all this, I personally did not regret the relatively minor $300 it cost me to subscribe to his website. I found it helped me along in my trading conceptually if not practically -- but the concepts helped me to get the practicals on my own.

What's his motivation? I don't know. Now I hear he's giving seminars in Singapore. Maybe he's charging a lot of money? Maybe he loves to teach? Maybe lots of times $300 adds up (I hear there are over 50 people in his chat room on a daily basis!)

electron · May 11, 2005

Quote from Duey Decimal:

with the exception of one trader, who seemed to constantly post winning trades (I don't recall his moniker), and when this person PM'd him, the guy told him that yes he's making good money, but he's not using ProfLogic's method at all.

This has been known as Woodie's syndrome...

The only people making money with Woodie's methods are apprently those who do not use them exactly as taught by the master but with some modifications...

downtickboy · May 11, 2005

Quote from Duey Decimal:

seems to be a moving target.

I spoke to someone that "trained" with him for HOURS over personal telephone sessions. (I will say this -- he seems to be very generous with his time. He does not charge extra for the sessions over the $300 that he charges to join his room.) According to the person I spoke to, he was constantly changing his methods. Switching to this chart and then to that. He seems to have moved from trading off a 777-tick chart to trading almost exclusively off a 98-tick chart, or something like that. It's not only the chart frequency that he changed; he's changed the whole methodolgy numerous times. From what this person tells me, he followed along in the new "chat room" for a while, and it seemed to him that no one there was actually making money, with the exception of one trader, who seemed to constantly post winning trades (I don't recall his moniker), and when this person PM'd him, the guy told him that yes he's making good money, but he's not using ProfLogic's method at all. Then he says that he wants to form his own group (one charletan to another??).

I too am a member of ProfLogic's website, although I haven't researched his method thorougly enough (especially through all its evolutions) to know if it makes money today. I highly doubt it. This is for sure: The trades he posts on his website (you know, where he never has a losing trade) are based on hindsight and subjectivity, and, as he sort of alludes to, could never be repeated by even the most orthodox follower of his system.

Having said all this, I personally did not regret the relatively minor $300 it cost me to subscribe to his website. I found it helped me along in my trading conceptually if not practically -- but the concepts helped me to get the practicals on my own.

What's his motivation? I don't know. Now I hear he's giving seminars in Singapore. Maybe he's charging a lot of money? Maybe he loves to teach? Maybe lots of times $300 adds up (I hear there are over 50 people in his chat room on a daily basis!)

Thank you for the informative reply. Yea it would seem odd that he only charges $300 for access to hours of phone calls and all the stuff on his website. Even if you have 100 people sign up it would not be worth the time to do it for the money after a few months. I guess that only matters though it you could trade it in real time using the concepts.

As far as changing the methods, could that have anything to do with changing market conditions? That would seem logical although I don't know how extensive the changes were. Although you made it sound like it was a dramatic change.

Duey Decimal · May 12, 2005

Quote from downtickboy:

As far as changing the methods, could that have anything to do with changing market conditions? That would seem logical although I don't know how extensive the changes were. Although you made it sound like it was a dramatic change.

He flip-flopped a lot. I remember once being on the phone with him myself, when I was questioning a method he was using at the time, which would have lost money on that particular trade. In the middle of our conversation, he said something like, "Oh I didn't tell you beginners yet about the following rule..." Then, as we were talking, the market changed. He backtracked on the rule change, telling me to forget he ever said it. Rules do change, but his seem to change on whims. Also, although he has claimed his "method" is not subjective and completely objective, this does not seem to be the case. As far as I can tell, the rules on his rules page, if subjected to the objectivity of a trading simulator, will lose money. I have not done it myself, nor am I familiar with the method he currently trades, but when I tried walking through his method on charts, it was losing money, and the results weren't even close to the "theoretical results" he posts on his website, which as I said are trades taken with hindsight and at unattainable prices.

electron · May 12, 2005

Quote from Duey Decimal:

He flip-flopped a lot. I remember once being on the phone with him myself, when I was questioning a method he was using at the time, which would have lost money on that particular trade. In the middle of our conversation, he said something like, "Oh I didn't tell you beginners yet about the following rule..." Then, as we were talking, the market changed. He backtracked on the rule change, telling me to forget he ever said it. Rules do change, but his seem to change on whims. Also, although he has claimed his "method" is not subjective and completely objective, this does not seem to be the case. As far as I can tell, the rules on his rules page, if subjected to the objectivity of a trading simulator, will lose money. I have not done it myself, nor am I familiar with the method he currently trades, but when I tried walking through his method on charts, it was losing money, and the results weren't even close to the "theoretical results" he posts on his website, which as I said are trades taken with hindsight and at unattainable prices.

OK, guys... If you really don't know how to spend $300, I can give you some rules and will promise to change them once a month for the next 6 months. OK, I can even do this for $295.

mhashe · May 12, 2005

Quote from electron:

This has been known as Woodie's syndrome...

The only people making money with Woodie's methods are apprently those who do not use them exactly as taught by the master but with some modifications...

There is a fundamental lesson in the above comment.

Play with everything out there till you find the market, timeframe and indicators that speak to you and you only. Only then will you be sucessful. Imitating others will not get you anywhere.