Well Hell (where I will no doubt be going),
While we're talking about philosophers, I think it was Descartes that said you can never truly believe anything unless you first doubt it.
So I solute your doubtfulness.
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- Thread starter jj_jere@hotmail
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Well Hell (where I will no doubt be going),
While we're talking about philosophers, I think it was Descartes that said you can never truly believe anything unless you first doubt it.
So I solute your doubtfulness.
Daniel....I want to try to respond to a concern of yours that was about Christian people not considering or conceding to the superiority of your argument and questioning their faith. IMHO it really doesn't have anything to do with the superiority of the argument or the strength of the points but rather some other reason for them to hold to their beliefs. For me it is a lifetime of experience and life changing events that I simply cannot turn my back on. These things may not make sense to you but they define me.
On the other side many people who share your views would never convert even it could be proven to them beyond a reasonable doubt that Christ is who he said he was. So for them it is also some other reason than the strength of the arguments that makes them hold to their views. It could be a variety of things and most probably different for each individual. I feel that that is why people cling to either side so strongly and also why these issues are so personal and deeply held.
On the other side many people who share your views would never convert even it could be proven to them beyond a reasonable doubt that Christ is who he said he was. So for them it is also some other reason than the strength of the arguments that makes them hold to their views. It could be a variety of things and most probably different for each individual. I feel that that is why people cling to either side so strongly and also why these issues are so personal and deeply held.
I don't doubt that a bit Doubter (no pun intended). I myself have had a few experiences in life that I can only describe as magical. I respect that you guys come forth and state your feelings and thoughts, but what I have a problem with is how you have indisputably decided that these magical acts must be the work of the Christian God (going back to my discussion with Vlad, that's correlation not causation).
Don't you think Hindu's have these magical acts occur in their lives?
I'm sure people of all religions have some magical stories and I think there's a better answer than "something magical happened to me and I'm a Muslim ergo it must be the work of the Muslim God".
Thoughts?
Matt.... I think you are correct that almost anything out of the ordinary can be taken as magical or supernatural by whoever is doing the analyzing. I too have had magical happenings that have shaped my history that I am very reluctant to attribute to anything. The ones I do attribute to Divine intervention have been the direct answer to prayer or more importantly the series of answers to specific prayers that I have a harder time rationalizing as luck or whatever. There is always the possibility that I am wrong but by faith I trust these things and will continue to pray for and expect them. The question I am going through is after all these years why are some categories of prayers just not answered and why are some routinely answered. My only answer so far is that I have finite understanding and I am dealing with One who has infinite understanding so I'll just have to be satisfied to obey and have faith.
OK, I'll try this again
Are you saying that Hindu's don't have some of their prayers answered (but you do)?
See, what I'm trying to get you (and the others) to admit is that there is a distinct possibility that the answering of your prayers has nothing to do with whether you said the prayer to Jesus or Buddha or Moses or Mohammed or whoever. (I'm not saying you have to drop the entire foundation from which you've based your life, I'm just saying it might be a possibility).
Everybody thinks their religion is the right religion, but they can't all be the right religion.
Maybe, just maybe, somewhere along the way, I might get one of you guys to think, "Hey you know, he might have a point there".
Are you saying that Hindu's don't have some of their prayers answered (but you do)?
See, what I'm trying to get you (and the others) to admit is that there is a distinct possibility that the answering of your prayers has nothing to do with whether you said the prayer to Jesus or Buddha or Moses or Mohammed or whoever. (I'm not saying you have to drop the entire foundation from which you've based your life, I'm just saying it might be a possibility).
Everybody thinks their religion is the right religion, but they can't all be the right religion.
Maybe, just maybe, somewhere along the way, I might get one of you guys to think, "Hey you know, he might have a point there".
Hey you know, he does have a point and a very good point too.
I have wondered that same question many times myself as have lots of people I have talked to. There won't be a definitive answer that satisfiies everyone until the end whenever and whatever that is. For now I have to operate by faith and if I put my faith in Jesus then it is He and not me that requires me to, for me, discount all others. It would be much easier and more logical to do as you suggest but I am afraid I am not afforded that luxury. Jesus is unique and it is to Him I am responsible, not any religion or church whatsoever. Again this is a very personal thing which makes me appreciate your position also.
I have wondered that same question many times myself as have lots of people I have talked to. There won't be a definitive answer that satisfiies everyone until the end whenever and whatever that is. For now I have to operate by faith and if I put my faith in Jesus then it is He and not me that requires me to, for me, discount all others. It would be much easier and more logical to do as you suggest but I am afraid I am not afforded that luxury. Jesus is unique and it is to Him I am responsible, not any religion or church whatsoever. Again this is a very personal thing which makes me appreciate your position also.
And let me ask you for your gut level feeling: do you really want to pray to a pantheon of Hindu gods even if they have supernatural powers? I don't think so. I'm not trying to slam anybody, but I am sincerely thankful that our nation has always been free from polytheism.
Here's another question: mathematically do you see any way that reincarnation can be true given any reasonable population versus time curve?
And if polytheism and reincarnation are problematic, why would you trust the "rest of the package"?
Here's another question: mathematically do you see any way that reincarnation can be true given any reasonable population versus time curve?
And if polytheism and reincarnation are problematic, why would you trust the "rest of the package"?
My point is that imo an examination of the alternatives is very revealing. When I was younger I believed in the occult and had several supernatural experiences, but I am thankful every day to be free from that bondage.
I think of people in other religions exactly as I thought of myself: trapped in an ancient belief system (the occult is merely mutated Hinduism) who need to for the most part be shown the alternative: that there is a Creator of the Universe and that He will be involved in their lives.
This is not arrogance since I was exactly as they are. I would be slamming myself if I slammed anyone else.
I think of people in other religions exactly as I thought of myself: trapped in an ancient belief system (the occult is merely mutated Hinduism) who need to for the most part be shown the alternative: that there is a Creator of the Universe and that He will be involved in their lives.
This is not arrogance since I was exactly as they are. I would be slamming myself if I slammed anyone else.
Thank You. You have made my day, and your openmindedness (if that's a word) has restored my faith in humanity.
Now go back to being a "Good Christian Boy" and strike these memories from your databanks.
I agree with you the number of souls and the ever-growing population would seem to throw a big wrench in the reincarnation idea.
But I'm going to use one of the arguments I heard earlier to try and state my point. God's knowledge is much greater than our knowledge, so if I had 10 Einstien brains I couldn't hope to understand how reincarnation could work?
How's that for dodging the question?