Profitable Traders: What makes you keep going?

[ktmtrader]

Hi,

I think your concerns and feelings are legitimate and I wouldn't pay too much attention to the people in this thread who are not in your shoes.

I'm curious - at what point did you start having these feelings? Just now? Or all the time?

How much are you making? Are you barely getting by or are you very successful? Could you become more motivated by becoming more ambitious? Scale up and try more markets? Even hire someone to trade your systems? Learning to program or some new trading skill? Getting your own office? Mentoring someone?

How about setting a goal of funding some charity through your trading profits? Or even doing some volunteer work on the side? Would that be meaningful?

I've had a variety of professions including engineer which you listed and I've had the feeling you have in all of them. Doing something 'meaningful' have been a motivation for many of my choices. It's a big reason I became an engineer intead of studying business (actually, I have a degree there also). But I can tell you that the feeling of 'meaningless' and the question "Shouldn't there be more to life than this? Is this it?" usually comes pretty fast for me in all those fields. It usually feels less meaningful than you think. Maybe being a doctor and actually saving lives would feel different?

Since trading is a lonely profession and essentially 'meaningless' in and of itself, I think it's an occupation which enhances these kind of feelings. It's also a possibillity that some of us are predisposed to this kind of thinking and search for some deeper meaning where others don't.

So, maybe see if some of my advice on expanding your trading can help you OR try to consider your trading as simply income (which is what jobs are to most people) and find something else to give you meaning.

Good luck!

I'm glad there are still some thoughtful, introspective members on ET still remaining where we can learn from one another and I am certain those are the consistently profitable ones because they have the right personality traits for this business.

"I'm curious - at what point did you start having these feelings? Just now? Or all the time?"

I have started feeling like this for the last year or so - it's especially bad on low vol days which we've had the last 2 months or so (nothing worse waiting around for my edge to appear watching Bloomberg or reading the news. I post on Twitter quite often on slow days to keep occupied and share what I have learned over the 10 years) that time could be used to build something - but then again that is on me to figure out.

"How much are you making? Are you barely getting by or are you very successful? Could you become more motivated by becoming more ambitious? Scale up and try more markets? Even hire someone to trade your systems? Learning to program or some new trading skill? Getting your own office? Mentoring someone?"

I am doing quite well and I have been gradually scaling up the contracts over the months/years - my trading is almost automatic now but not automated. I have always wanted to learn how to program and let the program do the trading but the more I read and listen to traders like Marcos Lopez De Prado - a genius in my opinion - for retail traders it's best to oversee our own systems besides my trading is so simple now I don't think it will ever need to be programmed. And yes, I have mentored a few newbies and that actually feels good.

It's strange I should feel this way given that I grew up in a developing country where my family's life was modest compared to the life I live in the US. Not to mention the sheer hell I went through for the first 5 years or so learning to trade on my own without a mentor, that learning period should make me forever grateful that I actually crossed the threshold that many never will. But I am not hurting for money, my wife has a great job and we are financially responsible. And no, I am not prone to depression and feeling sorry for myself - I am fairly active, lift weights, long bike rides, swim etc.

I am glad we are sharing our stories obviously all of us have had different life experiences which have led us to the moment where we are but then again if all of us saw the world the same way, the market would only trend in one direction and no one would make any money

 

[Overnight]

...but then again if all of us saw the world the same way, the market would only trend in one direction and no one would make any money

The markets DO trend in only one direction...?

 

[sle]

Im talking people making $500k+ at an i-bank treated like serfs and children.

Have you ever worked at in i-bank in a position that gets paid 500k+? As someone that have and have managed people that got paid that much, I can tell you that you do not get treated as a child. Yes, you're sure would be under a lot of pressure and you sure would be uncomfortable a lot of the time, but you gonna be treated as an adult all right.

Marcos Lopez De Prado - a genius in my opinion

What exactly in your opinion makes him a genius? FWIW, he's a master at self-promotion, but people worked with him think he's completely useless.

 

[Lukebaires]

If I could rewind my life 10 years - I wouldn't do this. I would do graduate work on economics and gone on to do some theoretical work or gotten a CS degree and do something interesting.

I am making some small consistent profits despite not having much experience at all, and I have to build my account size to make a living out of trading but don't discard the message just yet. I live in a third world country and around here people don't make more than 10k a year (this is true). My background career is not promising but I was lucky enough to land a job where I make what most professionals here make in other fields without being a professional or having a degree (which is, again, not much more than 10k a year). So I get the whole being in it for the money. I am, this is my only escape route to have a shot at making what some professionals make in other developed countries.

However, I can somehow relate to what you are saying. I am 32yo and I already don't picture myself living solely from daytrading while occupying the rest of my time on self centered hobbies. This seems somehow hollow to me, I don't want that type of lifestyle. So if you are like me then I think you need to take trading as a transitory activity. An activity that allows you to have the income you want while at the same time allows you to develop your personal interests and businesses in the areas you want outside trading. You need the money so instead of working for the man you work for the markets. Instead of having a not rewarding job at an office you have a not rewarding job at trading, only with better pay and better hours.

I myself want to study economics or get a CS degree too. The way I see it, being 32yo I don't have much chances at working in those fields, even if I start studying right now I will graduate at 36yo at best and with no experience in the field. This doesn't mean I can't study what I like, because the way I picture my future I won't need to live off those careers.

You mention you regret not getting a CS degree or do graduate work on economics, you can still do this. And you can do it without the pressure of having to live off that. I plan to achieve financial freedom from trading the markets to study the things I like at university or even on my own, most likely college since trading already is a solitary activity. So I think you should focus on getting the degrees you want and start a business outside trading if that suits you, don't allow another 10 years to go by. Listen, I regret wasting my 20s. You regret wasting your 30s. You can bet theres tons of 50yo dudes out there that regret wasting their 40s. Make the best out of the next 10 years, you already are in a priviledged position to do so. Think about it: what are the two most important resources you need for whatever you want to achieve? those are time and money. You, being a consistent profitable trader, have both.

 

[Seaweed]

Hopefully one of these days you will understand OP's post.

First world problems.

I don't doubt the OP is bored, but I hesitated replying to him. If I had, it might have been something like "cry me a river".

The fact of the matter is, and not that I mean any disrespect, but he has lost sight of where he fits in the world and what he has. Maybe he has been "blessed" from the beginning, so has never had this perspective.

Day after day I read articles such as Tesla workers complaining they get sent home early, without pay, and all they ask for is guaranteed hours. You've got a huge percentage of Americans who have jobs, and yet still need to rely on food stamps to put food on the table.

The OP has lost appreciation for what he has. All he needs to do is to put himself in the shoes of someone less fortunate, who actually has to maybe get up at 4am for a 2 hour commute and slave away at a job they truly don't enjoy, where they don't have any ability to control their destiny, yet must do every day in order to make ends meet.

The fact of the matter is, he has choice. He can continue to trade and be sad, or he can go do something else, and more than likely find out how good he had it. Since has already has this freedom, he is in the top 10% or higher.

He clearly needs more in his life, and hopefully his trading is successful enough that he can do more. All those other professions he listed more than likely require much more work, and I would understand if those guys complain, since they probably work far too many hours.

I don't want to sound to cold, and I at least appreciate that everyone has a right to be sad and question their own existence and happiness, but he has the power to more than likely do anything he wants with his spare time and money. Most people do not have this sort of autonomy so its a little difficult to sympathize.

 

[SimpleMeLike]

Thanks for the moral support. My problem is I don't think what I am doing have any real contribution to society, it is like playing Monopoly.

ironchef,

If you want to contribute to society, go adopt 2 shelter dogs, go mentor kids in a foster program, go mentor kids in the low income area, go pay a charity who takes care of poor kids, go donate your trading income to things that contribute to society, go volunteer to foster rescue animals, go get in your car and feed the poor for 30 minutes, just hand out $5 bills.

Trading is for making money. Period. It is not for contributing to society. Use your money and smartness to contribute to society in your spare time.

 

[Laissez Faire]

Where did the OP say he's not thankful? He specifically said he's losing motivation after 10 years of trading and he wonders what keeps other traders motivated to continue at this and he's questioning if he's made the right career choice or vocation.

You guys don't get it because you're not in his position, but wish to be...

And what's with the baby talk? Nobody forced me to have children and I don't have any at this point. Not sure I ever will.

 

[xappppp]

As a retail trader, you do contribute to the society a lot by provide liquidity to the financial market. That's the number one industry of US and yet you take the risk and get paid for it.

 

[Turveyd]

As a retail trader, you do contribute to the society a lot by provide liquidity to the financial market. That's the number one industry of US and yet you take the risk and get paid for it.

As a retail trader, I'm making $$$'s after giving $$$'s away for a long time and paying bills, it's a nothing, but worked for 30years so happy to take money off others retail really but that's being an accountant so big boys I prefer to think.

No need to glamourise it.

 

[Kiaraakitty]

I am new to trading, is my first week.. and to be honest.. I am not sure how it feels after 10 years of trading yet.. for me I like the excitement of finding out new markets etc and exploring into new possibilities .. maybe you just need friends with similar trading interest and talk about trading, it is not that lonely ~