i use to think that until i actually became profitable daytrading, despite what the general thinks, imho the profit is certainly worth the effort, but its not an exageration when to say out of a thousand probably 2 or less will become successful, just a feel, unless one has a high iq i think a desire to give it your all or die trying certainly is needed
profitable daytrading is possible, but probably not worth the effort
- Thread starter dozu888
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Honestly, the title of this thread is quite accurate. Anyone considering taking this up as a venture, will likely fail.
Those who say basically, that anyone can do it, are thoroughly misguided and not helping others. if they disagree, they are more than welcome to provide evidence (not opinion) to the contrary. The prevailing wisdom is that most lose their money doing (leveraged) trading. And for those who do not lose, many of the rest are near breakeven or small profits.
Spending thousands of hours in front of a screen does NOT guarantee ultimate success, especially GREAT success.
For most people, it is " probably not worth the effort" as (s)he says.
well then, how does one determine what is "worth the effort?"
it does require much less effort to stand on the corner with your hand out.
daytrading is a blue collar job.
it is no different from brain surgeon or litigation lawyer -- after awhile, you are just going through the motions, punching the time cards, pushing the buttons. there is no risk, no stress, no excitement, no glamour, no purpose other than making more money.
it is no different from brain surgeon or litigation lawyer -- after awhile, you are just going through the motions, punching the time cards, pushing the buttons. there is no risk, no stress, no excitement, no glamour, no purpose other than making more money.
Form robbie380's top25 efficiency post, I think they are using the same automatic scalping strategy (their unique G8 platform) provided by the firm. The difference is the different stock candidate each trader selected to scalp and pre-program into the computer in the morning.
If everybody traded the same stock, traders are competing to each other within the firm.
If everybody traded the same stock, traders are competing to each other within the firm.
Agreed. I've no doubt that if losses and gains were totaled over the past 10 years for those engaging in short term trading on every level, there would be a massive net loss.
Couple that with the opportunity losses - which include lost time, lost career opportunities - and missed gains from not investing longer term, and it would be a pretty sad story.
But...can't stop people from trying.
I trade about 5000 shares a day. Usually 1000 shares a position. I make a list of tradeable stocks on the previous evening, add/remove from the list before the market opens. I enter trades based on set up in 5 min and 15 minute charts. I average about 500 to 800 dollars a day. I close out any trade in which I am down 500 dollars. Duration of the trade varies - as little as 10 minutes to as long as 4 hours (when set ups fail or stall, but still holding out hope). I averaged 13K/month in 2007.
Sometimes, I wonder if I am a bit slow. Like this morning, I bot 1000 AKNS at 10.62 based on a breakout on the 5 min chart. Sold it 15 mins later at 11.07. One hour 15 mins has passed since that trade , I have not traded the stock again even though I have been watching it like a hawk. It has provided 20 cent moves 4 times of which I identified 2. But could not pull the trigger because my 5 min chart would not show any thing I could discern.
I am also curious how my trading style would go in a prop firm. Would they laugh at my 5000 shs/day? I make decent money, have no need for purchasing power because at any given time I dont need more than 150k. I trade alone at home while the family is out doing their thing. It gets terribly lonely and miss the going out of the house in the morn. I have been thinking about joining a prop firm for the companionship and maybe update my trading skills.
I would appreciate comments.
Sometimes, I wonder if I am a bit slow. Like this morning, I bot 1000 AKNS at 10.62 based on a breakout on the 5 min chart. Sold it 15 mins later at 11.07. One hour 15 mins has passed since that trade , I have not traded the stock again even though I have been watching it like a hawk. It has provided 20 cent moves 4 times of which I identified 2. But could not pull the trigger because my 5 min chart would not show any thing I could discern.
I am also curious how my trading style would go in a prop firm. Would they laugh at my 5000 shs/day? I make decent money, have no need for purchasing power because at any given time I dont need more than 150k. I trade alone at home while the family is out doing their thing. It gets terribly lonely and miss the going out of the house in the morn. I have been thinking about joining a prop firm for the companionship and maybe update my trading skills.
I would appreciate comments.
it's interesting that you mention this.... I personally never donate to charities, because most of them are for the benefit of the owners.. (statistics show that on average only 10 cents of every dollar donated to charities actually go to the needy)
off topic there, but whenever I see somebody standing on the corner, as long as I have a red light, I usually hand him a buck. It got me thinking one day when I handed a guy my usual $1 support, and saw him walk by all the cars waiting at the red light, he must have got hand-outs from 10 cars. Let's say the lights go thru a cycle every 2 minutes (busy intersection), and he gets $5 from 10 cars every cycle... that is $150 an hour.. $1200/day. Hard to believe isn't it? but that is what I observe every time I go thru that particular intersection... let's go super conservative and cut that in half for $600/day..... the average daytrader doesn't score $600/day.
Its clear to me that trading isnt something you truly believe in deep down. It doesnt sound like something that you really want to pursue in your life. You always ask for evidence and hard facts to PROVE that trading is worth it or a great "career" to have.
To those of us who do this for a living and earn a lot of money, we could care less about what you need to convince you or anyone else that giving it your all is worth it. Anyone with moderate intelligence (and no real psychological issues) and a hunger and passion for the mkts has a great shot to make it. If I can be very good, so can anyone else who puts in the necessary time and does the right things (ie learn from mistakes, truly observe the mkt, put in adequate screen time). I'm so sick and tired of wusses (yes you rcanfiel) who make a million excuses about why its too risky or not worth it. Fine, if its not worth it then get the f*ck off this board.
The bottom line is most things that are WORTH pursueing will have a very high failure rate because the payoffs are so great. I expect most to fail but its not because its so hard. Its because the people attempting the endevour dont approach things properly or lose all their money before they have a fighting chance. Those who approach things slowly and work through all the necessary learning stages and stay properly focused and motivated, should come through the other side making wads of cash. But the key is not to focus on the money aspect because once you know what to do, the profits take care of themselves.
To those of us who do this for a living and earn a lot of money, we could care less about what you need to convince you or anyone else that giving it your all is worth it. Anyone with moderate intelligence (and no real psychological issues) and a hunger and passion for the mkts has a great shot to make it. If I can be very good, so can anyone else who puts in the necessary time and does the right things (ie learn from mistakes, truly observe the mkt, put in adequate screen time). I'm so sick and tired of wusses (yes you rcanfiel) who make a million excuses about why its too risky or not worth it. Fine, if its not worth it then get the f*ck off this board.
The bottom line is most things that are WORTH pursueing will have a very high failure rate because the payoffs are so great. I expect most to fail but its not because its so hard. Its because the people attempting the endevour dont approach things properly or lose all their money before they have a fighting chance. Those who approach things slowly and work through all the necessary learning stages and stay properly focused and motivated, should come through the other side making wads of cash. But the key is not to focus on the money aspect because once you know what to do, the profits take care of themselves.