Profitability of traders

F

flakac

I have following questions:
Can anybody of you (experienced...) tel me the distribution among profitable and losing traders? Is any statistic available (from brokerage..), about the proportion of profitable versus loosing traders, the mean size of account, the relationship between account size and profitability, the relationship between length of traders and profitability, etc, etc.

In general, are more profitable day traders or swing traders?

I guess if there are traders doing trading for living and prop firms doing the some, there must be much much more nameless losers.
 
There are official stats but I don't remember the link. Most are losers and most have diploma phd, enginnering that is to say don't make any complex if you have none :D. Now you don't choose a field because of statistics but because you know you can prepare to be in the selection. In France it's very easy to get a phd at universities whereas entering an engineering school is very competitive process so that there are only 5% of candidates - already selected among the first of their college - that finally become engineers, does it mean that you musn't try because of that low stats ? No of course but only if you know that you have some chance of success that is better than others. And for stock market it can't be based on diploma alone : at least that's its advantage it's really democratic :D.

Quote from flakac:

I have following questions:
Can anybody of you (experienced...) tel me the distribution among profitable and losing traders? Is any statistic available (from brokerage..), about the proportion of profitable versus loosing traders, the mean size of account, the relationship between account size and profitability, the relationship between length of traders and profitability, etc, etc.

In general, are more profitable day traders or swing traders?

I guess if there are traders doing trading for living and prop firms doing the some, there must be much much more nameless losers.
More...
 
Hmm

What difference would it make to your style of trading if you had this knowledge?

If you want to know which is more profitable, then do more back testing, and see how each method feels. One can never reach peak performance foloowing others - the style you develope must be one that you can trade easily. Ask yourself what you want form the market, but avoid answers that you think a novice might give - financial freedom, lots of money, working for myself - look deeper.

The generic levels of success accocaited with different styles are meaningless on an idividual basis. Rather than looking at rates of sucess, identify the different styles of trading you want to look at, then find three traders who excelled in these disciplines. Try and read books like Market Wizards - and see which style you like the best. Ultimately, the only way to find out is to try them - paper trade by all means, but ultimately the only true way to discover your true style is put money on the table.

I hope this helps.

Oh one other thing. Never, ever, ever give up.:cool:
 
This clip below was copied from TradeStation's recent quarterly earnings release. The other publicly traded brokerage firms likely provide similar information; some may provide more detail. (Revenue per account is commissions, etc., to TradeStation.)


"TradeStation's Average Equities Client Trades 630 Times Per Year and Has a $116,000 Asset Account Balance

Brokerage clients generated the following client account metrics in the 2004 first quarter:

Client Account Metrics Equities Futures
Annualized average revenue per account $3,490 $3,590
Annualized trades per account 630 702
Average assets per account $116,000 $22,300

TradeStation's average client trades about 50 times more often than the average client of its larger competitors (based on trading account data for Ameritrade, E*Trade, Fidelity, Schwab, Scottrade and TD Waterhouse in a Keefe, Bruyette & Woods' January 2004 industry report). Also, TradeStation's average
assets per equities account of $116,000 and average assets per futures account of $22,300 are double to triple the industry average."
 
Quote from Spitfire:

Hmm

What difference would it make to your style of trading if you had this knowledge?

If you want to know which is more profitable, then do more back testing, and see how each method feels. One can never reach peak performance foloowing others - the style you develope must be one that you can trade easily. Ask yourself what you want form the market, but avoid answers that you think a novice might give - financial freedom, lots of money, working for myself - look deeper.

The generic levels of success accocaited with different styles are meaningless on an idividual basis. Rather than looking at rates of sucess, identify the different styles of trading you want to look at, then find three traders who excelled in these disciplines. Try and read books like Market Wizards - and see which style you like the best. Ultimately, the only way to find out is to try them - paper trade by all means, but ultimately the only true way to discover your true style is put money on the table.

I hope this helps.

Oh one other thing. Never, ever, ever give up.:cool:
More...

great advice from a novice.... :confused:

your question is a good one (ignore all the bullshit above); i, like many of the real traders here, have no concrete answers for you. so all i can tell you is what i've seen. in my brief career so far as a trader, i have seen that discretionary traders fail the most. short term traders fail the most. statistically and mathmatically uneducated traders fail the most. the only traders i know that are making a living are trading systems, either manually or automated. and they are trading longer term systems (definitely not scalping or shooting off 10 trades on one instrument a day).

for gods sake throw away market wizards if you think that is your ticket to knowledge...these books are for entertainment ONLY. 'putting money on the table' is NOT how you discover things, nor is 'looking deeper' necessary. the market is there to generate MONEY for you -- no other reasons. its not a complex theory or anything.

realize that probably 75% of the people here don't actually trade, 15% think they do but don't, 5% used to but don't anymore, and 5% make a living trading and usually won't post unless its to save somebody from getting really bad advice from the 15%.

as to 'what difference it would make if you had this knowledge?', well, i would HOPE that it would make a HUGE difference to you -- unless your idea of making a living is paying people to see you swim upstream on the niagra river.

:D
 
Quote from funky:

great advice from a novice.... :confused:

your question is a good one (ignore all the bullshit above); i, like many of the real traders here, have no concrete answers for you. so all i can tell you is what i've seen. in my brief career so far as a trader, i have seen that discretionary traders fail the most. short term traders fail the most. statistically and mathmatically uneducated traders fail the most. the only traders i know that are making a living are trading systems, either manually or automated. and they are trading longer term systems (definitely not scalping or shooting off 10 trades on one instrument a day).

for gods sake throw away market wizards if you think that is your ticket to knowledge...these books are for entertainment ONLY. 'putting money on the table' is NOT how you discover things, nor is 'looking deeper' necessary. the market is there to generate MONEY for you -- no other reasons. its not a complex theory or anything.

realize that probably 75% of the people here don't actually trade, 15% think they do but don't, 5% used to but don't anymore, and 5% make a living trading and usually won't post unless its to save somebody from getting really bad advice from the 15%.

as to 'what difference it would make if you had this knowledge?', well, i would HOPE that it would make a HUGE difference to you -- unless your idea of making a living is paying people to see you swim upstream on the niagra river.

:D
More...

It would seem you have created an erroneous correlation between lenght of time at ET and sucess as a trader. Also, before you start trashing someone elses advice, make sure you know what you are talking about. Firstly, I doubt if you would know what a real trader was if it landed on your head, and secondly, since you on to admit that you have only just started trading, I would suggest that use you eyes and mouth in the corrrect ratio, and be a good little boy and be seen and not heard. One day, maybe, just maybe, if you become a 'real trader', you may just find that the key is not analysis or technique, but just self, which by the way is not complex. Until then, please keep trading as this is how I put my children through college and spend half my time travelling the world - all thanks to Muppets like you.
 
Quote from Spitfire:

Hmm

What difference would it make to your style of trading if you had this knowledge?

If you want to know which is more profitable, then do more back testing, and see how each method feels. One can never reach peak performance foloowing others - the style you develope must be one that you can trade easily. Ask yourself what you want form the market, but avoid answers that you think a novice might give - financial freedom, lots of money, working for myself - look deeper.

The generic levels of success accocaited with different styles are meaningless on an idividual basis. Rather than looking at rates of sucess, identify the different styles of trading you want to look at, then find three traders who excelled in these disciplines. Try and read books like Market Wizards - and see which style you like the best. Ultimately, the only way to find out is to try them - paper trade by all means, but ultimately the only true way to discover your true style is put money on the table.

I hope this helps.

Oh one other thing. Never, ever, ever give up.:cool:
More...
Who the hell are you,Tony fucking Robbins?All that feel good crap may bode well in La-La land but in the real world people are looking for real answers to hard questions so they can make informed decisions.
 
Quote from BundMaster:

Who the hell are you,Tony fucking Robbins?All that feel good crap may bode well in La-La land but in the real world people are looking for real answers to hard questions so they can make informed decisions.
More...

It would appear your search will be a long and fruitless one.
 
Quote from Spitfire:

It would appear your search will be a long and fruitless one.
More...
If I'm searching for some bonehead who will stroke me at a moments notice then it will be a short search.You fucking fairies are a dime a dozen.We don't need people like you giving this place "atmosphere".
 
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