Professional traders screens are made up mostly of numbers, amateurs screens are made

Quote from logic_man:

I agree with you to a certain extent, but there is at least one way to mitigate the subjectivity of pattern recognition and the efficacy of that mitigation can be tested to derive probabilities for success. I know because

Basically, though, it sounds like you are saying that because pattern-based trading sometimes provides "false positives", leading to losing trades, that it is invalid. But every methodology gives "false positives" otherwise no one would ever make a losing trade, no? No one would enter a trade without expecting it to be successful, even if you knew that your probability of success based on history was less than 100%, yet not all trades are successful. Let's say I know my winning percentage is 50%, I would still never enter a trade if I thought it would be among the 50% of my trades which lose, so I'm clearly getting an "all clear" signal to enter which is false. Yes, I can optimize and try to figure out the conditions under which

Also, my experience with pattern-based trading methods is that one pattern implies a specific sequence of events to follow with some probability X, so that the pattern is the set-up, not the trade. To take a simple example, you trade the breakdown from a H&S pattern, not the beginning of the left shoulder.
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The exact logic can be used to support random entries. Either you win or you lose. Losers can become winners if you apply time. Just like winners can be losers depending on time Held

The dynamics here are not simply linear like a chart forces.
 
Quote from jOllie:

The exact logic can be used to support random entries. Either you win or you lose. Losers can become winners if you apply time. Just like winners can be losers depending on time Held

The dynamics here are not simply linear like a chart forces.
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Not all financial instrument derivatives meet your premise. Options, for example, have a finite life. Time wont help you when they expire.
 
Quote from jOllie:

The exact logic can be used to support random entries. Either you win or you lose. Losers can become winners if you apply time. Just like winners can be losers depending on time Held

The dynamics here are not simply linear like a chart forces.
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Not really, because price MUST behave in a certain way, within certain limits, in order for the trade entry hypothesis to remain valid within the constraints of the pattern. Even if the entry itself was based on a subjective interpretation of a chart, that subjective interpretation becomes the objective constraint on price now that the trade is initiated. So, if I enter a trade because I think a pattern ended at the most recent high, even if my interpretation of the pattern's conclusion is ultimately subjective and wrong, the most recent high is my stop. Period. In your scenario, I remain in the trade for some indeterminate amount of time even if price moves beyond that most recent high. It's not hard to construct scenarios in which pattern trading with objective stops would outperform random entry trading without objective stops.

Anyway, before dismissing pattern-trading, I think it would be appropriate to compare the records of pattern traders to non-pattern traders before saying one method was superior to another. My guess would be that there are good pattern traders who outperform mediocre non-pattern traders.
 
Quote from logic_man:

Anyway, before dismissing pattern-trading, I think it would be appropriate to compare the records of pattern traders to non-pattern traders before saying one method was superior to another. My guess would be that there are good pattern traders who outperform mediocre non-pattern traders.
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The only non-pattern trading I've ever had any success with is credit spreads. Passage of time has not yet been reversed at a scale that would negate the inevitability of option expiration.
 
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Quote from spindr0:

My Excel formulas aren't very bright. They can't analyze charts so I am forced to look at numbers only


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Quote from heypa:

Excel numbers have no intelligence.They can only do as you instructed them.
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LOL. I guess the irony of my comment was too subtle for you.
 
Quote from intradaybill:

All you should need to trade is a RT or EOD feed, whatever your style is, that is processed by an algorithm with output two numbers for each market you trade, one is the probability of the market to go up or down and the other the statistical significance of the result. If the values agree with your backtesting them you automatically place the order.

This is trading in 2010. Looking at charts is 1980s style of trading.
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IDB

I get this on trending days – how do you handle inside days Sir

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Separate note

I also get how one can trade with out a chart by entering the underlying – then offsetting with options


Not sure how to strictly trade (no hedging) stock(s) day in and day out without a chart(s)

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Aside

Couple of years ago my computer’s time was off causing my charts to crap out

To see how well I could read the tape I traded POT with out them - and only used T&S

Doable – yes… but it took a considerable amount of focus and note taking

I would not want to trade this way day in and day out


Thank You
RN
 
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Quote from JSSPMK:

Amazing...

Pro traders execute orders, so all they need is a number at which to execute. Retail traders mostly trade their own analysis & that analysis is mostly based on following strength/weakness, so a chart is required, though not a necessity.
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JSSPMK

Would you be put off if I replaced Pro with Commercial

I humbly consider myself a pro – but I also use charts

:)

RN
 
Quote from Redneck:

JSSPMK

Would you be put off if I replaced Pro with Commercial

I humbly consider myself a pro – but I also use charts

:)

RN
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Do you manage/trade OPM?
 
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