Professional or Non-Professional Subscriber for Exchange Data Fees

sprstpd said:
They won't know because this isn't an IRS issue. It is an exchange fee issue.
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If you really think the OP is just worried about this being an exchange fee issue, and has no worries about the tax consequences, then why don't you advise the OP to just pay the higher professional-trader exchange fee, and be done with it? You can't be penalized for paying more than you have to, right?

Have you even read through this thread? Oi!

(JSOP...just end this here. Get with the IRS and/or a CPA specializing in traders and their problems. You'll drive yourself nuts at this point by continuing here with us jamokes).
 
JSOP said:
Yes but if I incorporate myself, am I employed by myself? Or am I only considered to be "professional" if employed by other corporations to trade on their behalf?
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Totally a guess, but it seems like if you go through any "incorporation" process, then you are creating an entity which would be viewed as qualification for the "professional" fee rate. But you can see by the many posts I've made that there could be arguably different interpretations. And really, I don't know who the final arbiter would be. Probably a court of law.
 
Overnight said:
If you really think the OP is just worried about this being an exchange fee issue, and has no worries about the tax consequences, then why don't you advise the OP to just pay the higher professional-trader exchange fee, and be done with it? You can't be penalized for paying more than you have to, right?

Have you even read through this thread? Oi!

(JSOP...just end this here. Get with the IRS and/or a CPA specializing in traders and their problems. You'll drive yourself nuts at this point by continuing here with us jamokes).
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But this isn't an IRS issue. His question comes down to how the exchanges interpret an individual who incorporates under his or her own name (whether they are non-professional or professional). You should tell him to contact the exchanges directly and ask the question. However, since the exchanges want every possible person to be paying the "professional" fees, he will not get an unbiased answer from them.
 
sprstpd said:
But this isn't an IRS issue. His question comes down to how the exchanges interpret an individual who incorporates under his or her own name (whether they are non-professional or professional). You should tell him to contact the exchanges directly and ask the question. However, since the exchanges want every possible person to be paying the "professional" fees, he will not get an unbiased answer from them.
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Here's the unbiased answer from the CME. Your exchange may vary.

https://www.cmegroup.com/market-dat...it-a-to-schedule-4-non-pro-self-cert-form.pdf

Just give it up already! If you have questions, call people and ask!!! Ackkkk!
 
Overnight said:
Here's the unbiased answer from the CME. Your exchange may vary.

https://www.cmegroup.com/market-dat...it-a-to-schedule-4-non-pro-self-cert-form.pdf

Just give it up already! If you have questions, call people and ask!!! Ackkkk!
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Well thanks for the info. According to CME's non-pro self-certification form, I am DEFINITELY a non-professional!! Yipee!! Because its self-certification form makes it clear that a qualifying non-professional subscriber INCLUDES small business AND corporations besides "natural person" :)
 
JSOP said:
Well thanks for the info. According to CME's non-pro self-certification form, I am DEFINITELY a non-professional!! Yipee!! Because its self-certification form makes it clear that a qualifying non-professional subscriber INCLUDES small business AND corporations besides "natural person" :)
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As I mentioned, your exchange may vary. Just call them and ask! And if you have tax-status questions or whatever, call the IRS. Just ASK! Call and talk to PEOPLE! They will not bite your head off. 99% sure of that. (1% may actually be cannibals, cannot be certain). *sighs*
 
Overnight said:
As I mentioned, your exchange may vary. Just call them and ask! And if you have tax-status questions or whatever, call the IRS. Just ASK! Call and talk to PEOPLE! They will not bite your head off. 99% sure of that. (1% may actually be cannibals, cannot be certain). *sighs*
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If you read one of my previous posts, you would realize I don't report to the freaking IRS!!! I wish I do though actually believe it or not but nevertheless my question is NOT a tax one so the IRS thing is irrelevant.

For the exchanges, I agree with Sprstpd that if I ask the exchanges, they will just tell me to subscribe as a professional because they do have an incentive that I do so regardless whether I should be considered to have "professional" status or not. And I suspect they designed their definition of "non-professional" status to be so confusing on purpose so to trick you to subscribe as a "non-professional" and then get you later to pay more using the "employed by another organization" part to accuse you of not subscribing as a "professional". Just my suspicion and I hope I am just overthinking.

I thought since there are professional traders here so someone might know so I ask here.
 
JSOP said:
If you read one of my previous posts, you would realize I don't report to the freaking IRS!!! I wish I do though actually believe it or not but nevertheless my question is NOT a tax one so the IRS thing is irrelevant...
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I apologize, I lost sight of the fact you are not USA-Based.

...But this is NOT a question of tax issue. I just want to know in terms of the subscriber status for the exchange data fees, am I considered a "non-professional" or "professional" if I trade for myself with an account under my own name NOT under the corporation's name but incorporated for tax purposes.
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That is where I got confused and forgetful. I let you down, O' Canada.

What is the difference in the price per annum between Pro and non-Pro status on the exchange fees that you need, anyways?
 
Tim Smith said:
@sprstpd

Look, I don't know how I can make it any more simple !

A "natural person" is just that ! Its a human being, its got a heart, lungs and all the rest of the things a "natural person" has.

Dress it up however you like, but a "sole proprietorship" is a business, it is NOT a "natural person". It may not be a full blown "legal entity" but it is not a "natural person", it is a form of business organisation !

Anyway, coming back to the original question at the top of this thread, the OP said quite clearly that they were thinking about "incorporating", and that very much is not a "natural person".
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Dude a sole prop IS a natural person. Good lord.
 
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