Probability and the Hard Right Edge

That's because I am where you want / need to be

It'll make sense..., eventually..., if you see it through

RN

True that I don't feel comfortable being the one I am.
But I don't want your place. Just want to grow up.
Then why not play the musical chair together,
But I won't play till I can bring my own.
If it's not organical, It won't work.
Can't steal your place like that.
Got to build my own chair.
 
If there a question..., or a point to this post - it escapes me

Call me stupid

RN

But the point is easy.

You said "always trade within the given (preset / current) context"
And "Probability is always 50/50".

However Context is useless if the Probability is always 50/50.

As it's useless to look at the sky to gauge the weather,
If the probability that it will rain is always 50/50.
 
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Just want to grow up.

Strive to mature..., never grow up (growing up (getting old)..., the only thing remaining is death)

========================

Can't steal your place like that.

No you can't..., but you can become better than me


As it's useless to look at the sky to gauge the weather,
If the probability that it will rain is always 50/50.

You're attempting.., incorrectly..., to compare apples and elephants

=====================


You said "always trade within the given (preset / current) context"
And "Probability is always 50/50".

However Context is useless if the Probability is always 50/50.

Many misconceptions Sir

In no particular order:

Context (aka a component of TA) - does not forecast - never did..., never will..., was never designed/ created/ meant/ intended for forecasting

It contextualizes (duh) - which enables us to get..., remain - oriented - and also allows us to gauge / measure

==========

You are not grasping the real uncertainty component of trading

No one..., not you.., me..., the pope - knows what order flow lays waiting (queued up) to enter the mkt..., after we've entered

No one knows what order flow will come into the mkt next..., once the queued up orders clear

No one knows what "games" will commence after we've entered

===========

Context keeps us on the right side of price - right here..., right now

The next tic from now - no one knows

===========


At some point price will head in the opposite direction - could be the very next tic..., could be who knows how many tics from now

Why it called trading..., and not simply harvesting money

Why we are risk managers first..., and foremost

And why..., when (not if) a trade breaks down - we exit it - then nonchalantly (casually/ indifferently/ un-excitedly) move on to the next one


RN
 
Strive to mature..., never grow up (growing up (getting old)..., the only thing remaining is death)

========================



No you can't..., but you can become better than me




You're attempting.., incorrectly..., to compare apples and elephants

=====================




Many misconceptions Sir

In no particular order:

Context (aka a component of TA) - does not forecast - never did..., never will..., was never designed/ created/ meant/ intended for forecasting

It contextualizes (duh) - which enables us to get..., remain - oriented - and also allows us to gauge / measure

==========

You are not grasping the real uncertainty component of trading

No one..., not you.., me..., the pope - knows what order flow lays waiting (queued up) to enter the mkt..., after we've entered

No one knows what order flow will come into the mkt next..., once the queued up orders clear

No one knows what "games" will commence after we've entered

===========

Context keeps us on the right side of price - right here..., right now

The next tic from now - no one knows

===========


At some point price will head in the opposite direction - could be the very next tic..., could be who knows how many tics from now

Why it called trading..., and not simply harvesting money

Why we are risk managers first..., and foremost

And why..., when (not if) a trade breaks down - we exit it - then nonchalantly (casually/ indifferently/ un-excitedly) move on to the next one


RN
Totally agree.
Markets are kinda chaotic.
So we buy or sell according to the context.
Aka what has been and what it is. The dynamics.
However we can't extrapolate blindly, taking huge risk.
Because we effectively never know what's behind the corner.
Even if we took action, if we expect something from that chaos.
I understand but I am still confused somewhere deep inside me.
Anyway. I'll shed light on that. Could even be a breakthrough.
Aha. Thanks for having spent some time to explain to me.
What's crazy is that we care about context because ...
It produce a positive result on the bottom line,
But it's true that we're always behind, lost.
We can't forecast, predict the future.
But we can improve the P&L.
By ... Measuring, Gauging.
Then the black hole.
 
If one manages the trade correctly, they are being "Right".
It helps to play that game for peanuts.
You focus more on your moves, gameplays,
On the beauty of that game. Than on the P&L.
One do not learn to trade by forcing everything.
It's bad to think to do right just because it gains.

Someone overleveraged, with no SL and 10 ticks TP,
Will feel all right when he wins. Angry when he loses.
He will balance between joy and fear, certainly blow up,
But he will never take time to learn that game. Detached.
 
I was away from the mkts for many years after a lot of hard study of technical analysis - which I'm pretty good at - followed by a miserable failure at actual trading. I think one of the first things you realize if you approach trading from that background - intense study of TA - is that interpreting the hard right edge of a live mkt - price action - is a very different animal from analysis of a background chart where you look at static mkt structure. My problem at the time was that I could not reconcile the two.

Which I've realized was really a matter of perspective (and knowledge, of course). I've come to understand, mostly because of Adam Grimes and FT71, that the foundation of analysis of the hre of the chart is probability. (I know this is probably the most obvious thing in the world to so many of you, but I'm speaking to those for whom it is not.) The thing about interpreting past price action - market structure - is that (if we're genuinely competent) we can always be sure. Trading live, we can never ever be sure. In fact that simple little truism addresses one of the psychological barriers to good trading, the whole "being right" thing. Which is where perspective and probability come in; if instead of wanting to be right, one can instead simply want to be on the side of the most probable outcome - with the full realization that a "probable outcome is only that, probable - then it kind of lets you off the hook emotionally. (Here we could get into the whole "Plan Your Trade, Trade Your Plan" thing - probably the greatest truism in trading - but that's for another day.) It also gives you the only viable perspective for approaching TA analysis of a live market.

There are lots of different ways to consider probabilities; there are statistical studies of inside bars and what-have-you bars and volume and indicators and so on and so on, to infinitude; there are the statistics of trading journals such as trading setups and stops and expectancy and so on and so on... All very important, especially the journal. (Don't trade without it.)

But there's also another kind of probability, in my mind anyway, which is both somewhat intuitive and somewhat quantifiable, and is why study of TA and mkt structure is so beneficial. Adam Grimes is very big on probability and statistics but one of the things I like most about him, if I understand him correctly, is that he acknowledges that even if something cannot be statistically quantified that doesn't mean it isn't valid, because that particular "pattern" (for want of a better description, maybe more accurate to say "price behavior"?) is so dependent on context. There are simply too many subtleties and too much noise in the mkts to quantify certain price action. However, if one understands price structure and how the various components interact - accumulation/distribution, consolidation, trend, pullback, swings, support/resistance, springs/upthrusts, momentum, volatility (expansion/contraction), bar interpretation (open, close, high, low, spread), etc. - one can find certain criteria that define a "setup", respective to the context of the current price action and past mkt structure, which one can intuit to have a positive (for your position) probable outcome. (And again, journaling is essential here.) Basically, what we're doing is looking for signals within the noise, something that stands out, a change in price behavior that is telling us something significant may be occurring. This is why we're called "discretionary traders", because everything must be interpreted via the ever-evolving context of that hard right edge. Traders talk about the mkt telling a story, which it most certainly does, but it's a story being written in real time and every next bar is a cliffhanger. You will never, ever have enough information, because if you do, it's too damn late. Because of this, we can only trade via TA according to probabilities.

The problem I see repeatedly and why so many remain to be losing traders is unless you can read a chart upside down and all around, TA is worthless. You can't just say 5 period moving average are last five closes divided by five, what else happened in those five bars, what did price have to do for every little change in an indicator? Why does the indicator move as it moves? Most indicators people view them so wrong, indicators are used to indicate, and the rules you have in Trading Plan and well tested will show what patterns to seek to either get onboard existing trend or counter-trend, but to just blindfoldly use an indicator, might as well do to Woddies CCI room. You should be able to know what the indicator will do before price gets there. TA is also use to show when between charting and indicator there is something wrong, divergence.

If one understands Price Structure they have read books by John Hill as he is author that most have been plagiarized his works with Linda Raschke close second. More systems than any other author, John Hill, been copied and made into various systems. Problem with many quants, they have not enough knowledge of why something is happening.

Chart reading will more times than not say when it is time to get out, whereas indicators generally are not good at both for entering and exiting. Indicators for any one signal have a short life span and "Time" is often not back tested as too many get in tunnel vision as "Trend is your Friend", day trading trends last less.

Try this, take one chart and just that one chart as this is going to take years to complete using this one chart. Label every single bar, you make up the names for each bar, and you have to back test each bar to find the right name and what it most likely will do, you will need different names for uptrend/downtrend/sideways. When you can name just 1/3rd of the chart, you are way beyond 99% of the traders.

In order to get real good, you have to dissect price, swings and by the hour, how price trades in first hour is not like how it trades mid session.

Life is a probability, men love numbers, sports fantasy teams, baseball ave, QB ratings, horse racing speeds. Have you ever thought about this: You have a probability of a Triangle, let's say it profitable 65% of the time, BUT 300 stats you were unaware of when you did back test where all buys only cause trend was up entire time, and cause you rely more on TA than looking at every single trade in back test to form subgroups of stats of how or when that patterns was former, right after short term trend changed back to up, or deeper into trend. So TA is wrong hands, with is many, well, I know where I am getting my profits.

Hope you turn it around and trade well !!!
 
It helps to play that game for peanuts.
You focus more on your moves, gameplays,
On the beauty of that game. Than on the P&L.
One do not learn to trade by forcing everything.
It's bad to think to do right just because it gains.

Someone overleveraged, with no SL and 10 ticks TP,
Will feel all right when he wins. Angry when he loses.
He will balance between joy and fear, certainly blow up,
But he will never take time to learn that game. Detached.

I don't like words like wins, I prefer profitable, maybe I feel like am at a carnival and gunning for the big camel to win it. I do look at the P/L of trade I am in, especially the R:R, so like I am trying to get 10 ticks and price is at 8 ticks, so how much of the 8 ticks willing to risk to make 2 ticks?

Yes Sir, better to be detached and not think in terms of happy or upset, that will only mess up the next signal.
 
In order to get real good, you have to dissect price, swings and by the hour, how price trades in first hour is not like how it trades mid session.

Until my lazy ass sat down and used crude methods to actually dissect price structure, my trading performance was mediocre.
 
Until my lazy ass sat down and used crude methods to actually dissect price structure, my trading performance was mediocre.

It is like which you want working on your brain, the surgeon who takes off part of skull and just sees top/if it on the top he can remove it/even though it is four inches lower and a bit inside or the surgeon who has dissected 500 practice brains and knows every piece and how to get it out without making you act like Pee Wee Herman.

 
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