Pro-liberty viewpoints on the US states, and other countries

Picaso · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from phenomena:

Wow, you are highly misled.

For number 1 Canada is hard to fuck with. Greece is also notably accomplished. Much or Northern Europe and Scandinavia also do very well, Switzerland is decent....

As for number two Hong Kong and Singapore get it hands down. In the west Switzerland and Monaco are a distant first, along with other microstates such as Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, etc.

I didn't say there are no countries with either 1 or 2. I'm saying they tend to be different countries (unless now you're enamored of Canada's economics). Clearly, there are countries with high scores in either, nobody said otherwise.

----

Quote from phenomena:

As for number 3, Picaso couldn't be more wrong.

Switzerland enlists every able bodied adult male in the militia, ISSUES THEM A SEMI AUTO RIFFLE AND AMMO, makes them have bi annual or annual target practice and firearms training, and allows people to openly carry their firearms...

Further, Israel is quite free with firearms. It's quite common to see 16 year old males and females on the bus with M-16s. I'm not sure, but I have been told that it's fairly lax for civilian Israelis as well...

Note how safe Switzerland is, one of the safest places in europe. Israel is also one of the safest places on Earth if you don't count acts of terror and only count domestic incidents.

Switzerland:

- 50-60% of men do the military service (feel free to write to your Senator demanding a compulsory military service anytime), which lasts about 9 months. These 9 months can divided up over a number of years (4 months basic training and then 2-3 weeks periods, a real pain in the neck for most people with jobs). Most who can find an excuse (myopia, bad knee) aren't shy to use it to get exempted.

- Reservists are issued an assault rifle and 50 sealed rounds only to be opened in case of invasion (the seal is periodically checked for unauthorized use).

- Reservists can carry their assault rifle, always unloaded, directly to and from training and shooting ranges (in theory the guy in the picture could be charged for not going directly, but a friend of mine who lived in Switzerland says it's not that unusual - not that is common, mind you - to see some guy with a rifle. They can purchase as much ammo as they want in the shooting range, but can only use it in the range and would have to give back any unused ammo (of course, they shoot it

)

Conclusion regarding Switzerland: no such a thing as open carry in its "normal" sense/meaning.

Israel:

- Starting age for military service (men 3 years, women 2): 18. Minimum age for requesting a gun permit: 21. --> No 16 year-old girls riding on buses with M-16s (sorry to wreck your fantasies

).

- Reservists, bus and taxi drivers, jewelers [as a side note, jewelers can apply for a handgun permit in most European countries] and colonists beyond the Green Line (i.e. settlers in the West Bank/occupied territories): 1 handgun and 50 rounds of ammo (shooting ranges as in Switzerland: shoot as much as you want, but no take-outs). No handgun permits outside of this. No rifle permits to anyone other than reservists.

Conclusion regarding Israel: outside of what could easily be described as "war zones" and a small number of people, no such a thing as open carry.

One more time: outside the US, unless you're in the armed or security forces (ok, or you're a jeweler

), your chances of obtaining a gun permit are very slim.

Picaso · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

No it doesn't, there are numerous countries where you can carry guns in public.

Well, maybe I'm wrong, could you name a few?

(I understand you're talking about personal defense - not hunting - and "ordinary" private citizens - not police, (ex-)military, etc.)

Ghost of Cutten · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Picaso:

One more time: outside the US, unless you're in the armed or security forces (ok, or you're a jeweler ), your chances of obtaining a gun permit are very slim.

This is complete nonsense, why do you keep repeating it?

There are numerous countries that grant firearms permits relatively easily to normal civilian residents. You don't need citizenship in many cases, just a residency permit, which is a piece of cake to get in most places if you have an adequate visa.

It's obvious from your ignorant comments that you know little if anything about this subject. Have you ever even lived in a foreign country, or acquired a firearms permit abroad? If not, then kindly be quiet on the matter and leave this thread to people who have, or have at least researched the subject and know the FACTS. Stop spouting nonsense based on ignorance and factually incorrect prejudices.

Picaso · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

This is complete nonsense, why do you keep repeating it?

There are numerous countries that grant firearms permits relatively easily to normal civilian residents. You don't need citizenship in many cases, just a residency permit, which is a piece of cake to get in most places if you have an adequate visa.

It's obvious from your ignorant comments that you know little if anything about this subject. Have you ever even lived in a foreign country, or acquired a firearms permit abroad? If not, then kindly shut the fuck up and leave this thread to people who have, or have at least researched the subject and know the FACTS. Stop spouting nonsense based on ignorance and factually incorrect prejudices.

Wow!

So instead of simply citing a few countries that grant gun permits to civilians, you attack me, ok, I'll leave you to your fantasy world.

Wait, before I go: I am right and you're wrong.

Ghost of Cutten · Nov 14, 2010

By the way, now that they've introduced a 16% flat tax, the Czech Republic looks like a pretty good candidate. They already have liberal firearms laws - basically a de facto "shall issue" jurisdiction, you have to take a couple of basic tests to show you know a little about guns, after that you get granted a license. Basic rights are reasonable, especially now they are under EU jurisdiction. That might actually be one of the top options in the world, it's also a piece of cake to get residency.

Ghost of Cutten · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Picaso:

Wow!

So instead of simply citing a few countries that grant gun permits to civilians, you attack me, ok, I'll leave you to your fantasy world.

Wait, before I go: I am right and you're wrong.

Well come on, you can spend 5 minutes on search engines like the rest of us. This is easily available information, some of it is even on wikipedia.

And remember, it wasn't us in the wrong. You were politely corrected twice before getting any flak over it, it was only when you came back and contradicted us again that you got attacked. It is rather frustrating when someone who is in the wrong and doesn't know the subject, just ignores other people's polite corrections and carries on as if they were in the right all along. Also, I did edit out the swear word as I realised after posting that it was probably an overreaction.

Anyway, it's no big deal, but I can assure you that you can in fact carry in public in quite a few countries outside the USA, as a civilian. Not everywhere, and probably not with the same robust legal and political protections as most US states, but you can do it.

Picaso · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

Well come on, you can spend 5 minutes on search engines like the rest of us. This is easily available information, some of it is even on wikipedia.

And remember, it wasn't us in the wrong. You were politely corrected twice before getting any flak over it, it was only when you came back and contradicted us again that you got attacked. It is rather frustrating when someone who is in the wrong and doesn't know the subject, just ignores other people's polite corrections and carries on as if they were in the right all along. Also, I did edit out the swear word as I realised after posting that it was probably an overreaction.

Anyway, it's no big deal, but I can assure you that you can in fact carry in public in quite a few countries outside the USA, as a civilian. Not everywhere, and probably not with the same robust legal and political protections as most US states, but you can do it.

Thanks for the pointer to the Czech Republic, I didn't know you could carry there. Always glad to be corrected and to learn something new (but just saying "you're wrong" doesn't cut it). I stand by what I said about Switzerland, Israel and most of the world. Peace.

Lucrum · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Picaso:

Thanks for the pointer to the Czech Republic, I didn't know you could carry there...

Hows the weather though?

MohdSalleh · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

Ok, this is mostly a question for people who are either libertarians or small-government conservatives, classical liberals (not the modern US meaning), pro-freedom types. In your experience, which states in the USA, and which countries internationally, are most favourable to liberty in a practical sense?

Main areas of concern are:

1. Basic human rights i.e. fair trials, free speech, political assembly, movement, freedom of conscience (political views, religion), consensual sexual behaviour etc.

2. Economic and commercial freedoms e.g. reasonable burden of taxation, moderate levels of red tape, not too hard to start up and run a business, employment laws that are not too burdensome etc.

3. Firearms laws, especially in the area of self-defense/public carry, and hunting.

So, places like Dubai would be out, because there are no political freedoms and gun ownership is pretty much banned.

The country you want is Somalia.

1. Basic Human rights. Yes, lots of it, as long as you have a Gun you are free to say or believe in anything you want. You will have access to a fair trial as you are judge, jury and executioner.

2. Economic and Commercial freedoms. No taxes, no red tape, no employment law, no government. If you want to start a biz in any locale, just make sure you have the most firepower. You are free to start ANY business your heart desires. The Piracy business in particular is very lucrative, even world governments pay them off.

3.Firearms law. Non-existent. Right to bear arms is very much encouraged. M1A? LOL. RPG-7's and anti tank mines are for sale everywhere. Don't like your neighbour? Why, simply mine his front yard.

Freedom! It's so awesome.

Ghost of Cutten · Nov 14, 2010

Quote from MohdSalleh:

The country you want is Somalia.

1. Basic Human rights. Yes, lots of it, as long as you have a Gun you are free to say or believe in anything you want. You will have access to a fair trial as you are judge, jury and executioner.

2. Economic and Commercial freedoms. No taxes, no red tape, no employment law, no government. If you want to start a biz in any locale, just make sure you have the most firepower. You are free to start ANY business your heart desires. The Piracy business in particular is very lucrative, even world governments pay them off.

3.Firearms law. Non-existent. Right to bear arms is very much encouraged. M1A? LOL. RPG-7's and anti tank mines are for sale everywhere. Don't like your neighbour? Why, simply mine his front yard.

Freedom! It's so awesome.

Lol. Unfortunately that would require trampling over the freedoms of others, slight flaw in the plan. And I'd probably get shot by some jihadi after a while.