Pristine Prop Trading Education Program

I have enrolled in their prop program, missed the seminar in November so i will be taking the next one which will be in December.

I am already a successful trader and run my own blog, However there are limitations to my strategy and lack of capital. So it would be nice to get a progression table with them.

I have clarified everything with Pristine and here are the details

You basically pay the course fee and given them 2k in risk capital.
You start of in demo and then can go all the way up to level 10 or higher. You start with 50k and then can go up to 5mil or higher. However i did obtain stats from them and they said only 2% of their traders make it past level 7. They said most of the trader make it past level 4 within 6months or so and only 5 out of 100 people do not reach level 4 after six months . You reach weekly profit target 2 weeks in a row you are promoted to next level . You have daily and weekly loss targets , if you reach your loss limit you cant trade anymore for that day or week and start the next day or week. You get demoted if you reach loss targets 2 weeks in a row. You get to use their platform free and only have to pay data fee to NASDAQ and NYSE which cost around 35$ combined per month.

you get free prop trading room as long as you trade with them. you get free retakes and email access to the trainers. you get every Tuesday coaching session with Greg Capra and you get graduate training lab everyday for 1-3 hours along with pattern recognition coaching. And obviously you get the prop 5 day course.

Its a hard progression table so don't think this is a get rich quick scheme. You have to work hard otherwise its going to be impossible to get past level 4 if you don't work hard.

I asked pristine what was the catch , they said they have a lot of traders trading for them and some are past level 6, so even if i reach my weekly loss target consecutively for 4-5 months , the other traders already make up for those losses in less than a week plus that is why the charge a big amount for education since these losses are already priced in to their business model. They also said since the more profitable you are, the better for them so you can rest assured that they will offer you the best education and guidance so that you can succeed.

I did a lot of research and have been watching their free webinars for like a year now and also seen some of their material available online as well as the books published by them. Been using their 14 day free trial for the trading room after which i was convinced with their method as i was able to see them moderators and member make money everyday even on the tough days. If not big money then even a little but they somehow always found plays to make money and they were organized and followed specific routines everyday.

Anyways i will comment on the full program after completion since right now i have only enrolled but not yet started though i am pretty excited about it.

I have my own blog , feel free to check it out and let me know if you have any questions about this. I can only share what i have researched on pristine and about this whole program. I can only tell you the specifics after i have taken the course which will be around last week of December or so.

my blog is http://livetraders.blogspot.com
 
Sounds like Pristine has the exact same business model as Velez Capital Management, which morphed into Team Trading and other firms before stealing the money of their traders. This is not particularly surprising, since the founder and ethically challenged owner of Velez Capital Management was an original cofounder with Pristine.

The question for these operators, is how do you take the most possible money from an aspiring trader, with the least possibly legal liability? If you use the traditional route, you could enable traders to open up a prop or retail account, using a deposit of, say, $5k to $10k to get started. You can attempt to 'train' the new client, with the hope that he will learn to become a profitable and long term client for your firm. Unfortunately, no one in your firm really knows how to trade profitably, and these new traders would definitely learn nothing useful in any training class that your firm could offer. As a result, after the training course, the trader would quickly lose their account deposit through a series of losing trades and your trader will be lost, along with their money.

As an alternative, you could build up as many traders as possible, then run off and steal their money, wiring it into your personal account. Hmmm, this might be a bad idea, as you could be arrested and prosecuted for stealing their cash.

Wait! Holy Moly! I've got it! Let's NOT require a trading 'deposit' from our traders. Instead, let's ask them to pay a "training fee", and then after taking our (worthless) course, we will allow them to trade using "our firms money". (Note that "our firms money" is merely the traders money that we convinced them to give to us, and they cheerfully did, in the form of a "training" fee! Once they give us their money, it becomes OUR money, and we can do whatever we want with it, and it's all legal! But, how do we keep as many traders on the hook as possible, so we can lure more and more new aspiring traders to give us their money? Obviously, the newly 'trained' traders will never become profitable so we must keep them trading in microscopic size to prevent them from losing too much of the cash that they gave us for their training fee.

Each month, we will generate lots of training fees (easy money for our firm, in return for near worthless 'training'). On the downside, each month we will have a larger number of 'trained' traders that will be trading our money and losing (although in extremely small share size). Eventually, we won't be able to lure new suckers in a larger enough number to offset the losses that our 'trained' traders are generating. At that point we close down the operation and legally take all the traders money (which is now OUR money, as it was a "training fee" afterall). One additional option, is to 'change the deal' with the traders as you accumulate more and more losing traders. For example, begin requiring them to pay a newly required monthly fee, for some worthless service, to enable the firm to last a bit longer before going belly-up.

Easy money, baby, and not stealing (at least, arguably not legally stealing). This is the business model that scammed Velez Capital Management clients, Team Trading clients, and many others. Years ago, I raised the warning to avoid Velez Capital Management. Unfortunately, many traders sent their hard earned cash to that firm, and essentially had it stolen (although legally!). This sounds like the exact same business model. Be warned.

For those still considering this firm, let me suggest a few questions that you should insist on having answered.

1) Who developed the training material? What evidence can they offer that this person has successfully traded the markets for the past 5+ years? Do they have audited statements? If not, can they provide a signed legal statement that their capital gain income from trading has exceeded $100k per year for each of the past five years?

2) How many people are currently in the 'training program'? Can they provide P&L statistics, legally signed and attested by an officer of the company, which indicate the number of clients at each trading level, and the monthly P&L for the group of traders at each trading level?

3) If they are promising that you can "trade the firms capital" for your lifetime after your trading => Ask them what assurance you have that they won't require some monthly fee in the future to continue trading.

The long time members here at ET have seen these 'business models' come and go, and they have always taken the money of aspiring traders in the end. This particular program fails to pass the sniff test. Sorry. Buyer Beware.
 
I agree with you But the thing with pristine is that they have been around for a very long time , longer than any other educaiton firm and if it was a scam they would not exist this long. See other firms who were involved in these scams , they don't exist anymore or people know about the scam but i have found no one who was trained by pristine who could come forward and say pristine was fake and a scam.

Go to any of their webinars or trading room. They call all the trades live and they are archived under the announcements section so you can go back and refer to their trades. They make money everyday. some days less some days more. In their mentorship program or trading labs you can see the traders screen live as he makes trades. You can also see their p&l live from the platform.

No one in the webinar or trading room or anywhere mentioned negative things about them. I am talking about people who actually took the program with them. I agree the money you basically pay to them you get buying power not CAPITAL to trade with. It is the same thing. you could put up that money with any prop broker and get the buying power. But with pristine not only do you get the buying power but you get the education as well as support and a clear defined advancement table in which you can get your BP increased without paying any other deposit or money. That is how ALL prop firms work .

But as i said these are my initial comments. I cannot comment yet on how the program works. I will keep everyone updated here. The next program will be in december or janurary so cant comment till then
 
HI There,I am happy with pristine. i have taken their prop course. I feel the education is fantastic. i traded under the prop program for a while and found it too restrictive . when you join the prop program, you really pay 2 different things. first, you pay for a separate education which alone will not put you into the trading program, an additional 2000.00 has to be given to enroll you in the actual training, They use WTS as their broker dealer and everything is on the up and up. you need to pass the series 56 which is ok by me. the 2000.00 is not held by pristine, it goes to WTS securities and you are a member of WTS.
Although the education i feel is great, i feel you can be better served by somply opening an independent account with say 5000.00. the 2000.00 thing in my view is misleading and i feel the whole progression table is unrealistic. I am making consistent money, but there is no need to be placed under their jurisdiction and limitations of their advancement table. They want you to make like 8R's in a week for 2 weeks in a row to advance, i feel this is totally unrealistic and leads to over trading. Also, the platform is not free and their are fees. i pay 128.00 a month overhead fee which covers nasdaq nyse data and a 50.00 wts fee as well as a 25.00 bull shit fee that you have to pay. you will blow through this 2000.00 fast at this rate. , better to put up 5000.00, get a real 100,000 buying power right off the rip and have your own rules in place as to how much you will risk for day as well as the ability to set your own profit objectives. I feel if on average you can make 1-2 r's per week, you are doing great. 8-10 r's per week consistently is not an honest expevtation in my view.
My point is that id you need education, pristine is great for that. but if you want to trade with prop with them, you are better off opening an independent account with wts and fork over say 5000.00 instead of 2000.00. you no matter what have to shell out 128.00 per month, and you need staying power.
check out summitats.com these are the people associated with wts. pristine uses these people. you want to speak to a guy named vito galasso. he is in charge of independent accounts as well as the pristine prop program.
on another note, the financial transactions tax is becoming a real threat over and europe and could potentially spread like a virus here. are you sure you want to get into trading when it is quite possible day trading may no longer be a viable economic thing? wts accounts have no protection, and you are relying on the strength of the company for the security of your money. it is not sipc insured like retail accounts.
 
Hi!!

I saw your blog! it is great. i assumed you wree from the united states so my assumptions about fees are inaccurate, i wish you the best!! pristine in my view is a credible firm, and guys like paul lange ang jared wesley are the real deal and certainly do know how to trade and have a lot to offer and teach! good luck!!
 
Quote from EricP:

Sounds like Pristine has the exact same business model as Velez Capital Management, which morphed into Team Trading and other firms before stealing the money of their traders. This is not particularly surprising, since the founder and ethically challenged owner of Velez Capital Management was an original cofounder with Pristine.

Years ago, I raised the warning to avoid Velez Capital Management. Unfortunately, many traders sent their hard earned cash to that firm, and essentially had it stolen (although legally!). This sounds like the exact same business model. Be warned.
More...

Thanks for the continued public service announcements EricP.

You summarized their business model perfectly. Some people may choose not to listen, but, they will eventually learn.

More info of what you describe of the similar business model is at www.olivervelezrefund.com
 
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