Pristine Education

A

AA48

Hello everybody,

I am a trader with 10 years of experience,but not much success....I've studied a lot and practiced a lot,both with demo accounts and with real money.I've traded everything,stocks,futures,forex,you name it...

I believe that I have a good education,I always respect the rules of risk management,but my results are still poor....From breakeven,to a small gain,to a small loss...Sometimes,bigger losses to be honest.

I know that something is missing,I know also that the solution to my problem is not another book,another seminar,another indicator...Maybe I need a totally new approach.

Recently,I read again some old notes I have derived from Pristine seminars.I haven't ever taken their full course,but recently I watched Greg Capra and Ron Wagner talking in Money expo and I thought that maybe I should give them a try.Unfortunately,Velez is not with them any more...Anyway,they both seemed serious people to me and not the usual "I'll make you rich" guys.
Their education is not cheap and you need also to devote a lot o time to their seminars.

I want to ask if anybody has taken their full education and has applied their methods to the markets.Is it worthy to invest money and time in them?

please,I want serious answers from people that have already taken their education.I would appreciate any helpful advice.

Thnks a lot

Andreas
Greece
 
I have taken both the TPM1 and TPM2 seminars multiple times and spent a lot of time in their online trading room. Essentially, they do what they say they are going to do. They teach you a method of market play that basically works. However, I found I needed considerably more, (well, less actually, but it seemed like more at the time). Also, they are not cheap. In reality, really isn’t much more, (if any), information in the seminars that you could not get by reading a few books on the subject. However, for me, the problem was that I read the books but was clueless on how to use the information. Pristine gave me an approach to assess the knowledge that I had, and organize it in a usable way. Looking back, it was more of a side effect, but for me, it was what I needed. I did not make money from just learning their material, but it did put me in a place where I was able to see/understand what else I needed to get there. Was that worth the price? For me I would say that it was, because I had no other way to figure it out. But I have no idea if it would be for you or others. I think most people fail at this, but not for the reasons they think. Also, It took me over three years to discover that Pristine is simply an outline, to actually make money; it is how you interpret and use the information that counts.

I can tell you that from your post I suspect that your problem has nothing to do with more information, and everything to do with planning and discipline. Certainly if I knew what I know now, I would see how I didn’t really need any of it, but since I had no way to know what I did not know, going through the process may have been the only way for me.

Best of luck.

Btw, I used to read posts like the one I just wrote above before I knew much and think something like, what a bunch of cryptic bs.
 
Quote from AA48:


Recently,I read again some old notes I have derived from Pristine seminars.I haven't ever taken their full course,but recently I watched Greg Capra and Ron Wagner talking in Money expo and I thought that maybe I should give them a try.Unfortunately,Velez is not with them any more...
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RE: Unfortunately, Velez is not with Pristine any more.

I think it shoud be regarded as FORTUNATELY, Velez is not with Pristine any more. If you enjoy being kicked in the butt and be "motivated" like an equivalent of Tony Robbins pushing you in a seminar in trading, go and attend those "free" webinars offered by Velez Capital Management. He is a great salesman and BS'er. He can motivate you to trade and conquer the world pretty well.

While Greg Capra and Oliver Velez co-authored the book "Tools and Tactics for the Master Day Trader", I don't know who put in most of the work. My guess is Capra provided most of the content writing behind this book and Velez took most of the credits.

TPM1: I think they invented too many labels... The Pristine Buy Setup and Pristine Sell Setup are the basic trend following tactics (buying/selling pullbacks). Which are good. But plays like Mortgage Play, Guerilla Tactics, etc.., man! Easy to get confused and after a while, no one remembers what all they meant.

TPM2: I found TPM2 to be most useful. Greg talked about how to interpret price movements, candlestick patterns, volume analysis, bar-by-bar analysis, retracement analysis, market internals, gap, failed patterns, multiple time-frames, etc.. I think those are very useful. I picked up a few things from his presentations. Especially on the concept of momentum moves and the "VOIDS". Very useful.

Would this worth the ticket price (something like USD$2,000 each)... hard to say. Value is in the eye of the recipients. You either pay the education price and hopefully get "wiser" sooner that you would otherwise, or you pay the price by making wrong trades in the market to lose a few thousand bucks. I think either way you pay. I would say this: If you pay for the course, have some tax write-off, and can take advantage of their educational reimbursement program (commission rebate with MasterTrader.com), it helps paying off the cash outflow.

Pristine's educational courses and DVDs are quite legits (Capra and Wagner). VCM's courses by Velez, on the other hand, I have big reservations. They want to suck you in to trade for their firm, "using their money" (illusionally). I would advise to stay away from them.
 
Pristine announced the return of Paul Lange.

Lange has been Oliver Velez's lieutenant at Velez Capital/Team Trading/whatever-it-has-become-now.

I like the classes done by Lange than by Velez. Less snake oil. I think Pristine would be a better home for Lange than what Velez could ever provide.

Ron Wagner "suddenly" left. Some power plays it seems.

Players changed. The game still goes on...

Pristine Capital Holdings Inc. is pleased to announce that Paul Lange has rejoined Pristine Services, Inc. as a Vice-President of Education Services. Mr. Lange worked for Pristine from 2000 – 2007, during which time he mentored thousands of traders in Pristine’s Method Trading Room and played an instrumental role in making Pristine services the premier provider of education services to direct access market traders.

Paul brings an astute market knowledge and discipline to Pristine Services as he will routinely manage our Newsletters and Chat rooms as he had done in his previous tenure with us. In addition, Paul is widely known, respected and liked by hundreds of traders within and outside Pristine. It is these highly positive qualities that led us to believe that he would be a tremendous asset to Pristine and an integral part of the team of educational professionals we are continuously building.

On a less positive note, Ron Wagner unexpectedly terminated his consulting relationship with Pristine when the company internally announced that Paul Lange had rejoined the firm. This came as a shock since Paul is known as one of the best educators in the industry. His addition to the firm is in the best interests of the firm and all Pristine students. We are confident his abilities will more than impress each one of our students.

Mr. Wagner’s sudden departure will have no impact on the industry leading educational services that Pristine provides. We wish Mr. Wagner all the best in his future endeavors.

We look forward to continuing to push Pristine to provide the best trading educational products and services possible and invite you to take part in our upcoming one week open enrollment to the Pristine Method Trading Room run by Paul Lange. This is your chance to take a free one week peak at our premier Trading Education chat room. Details on how to enroll will follow in an upcoming email.
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The only great trader at pristine is paul lange and he says the rules are
1-always stick to an exact plan(let the other trades go by)
2-go with the trend
3-buy weak stocks on the smaller time frames 2/5 that are strong on the larger time frames-60 min daily.
4-print out all your trades at end of day when you wont have to trade to loook at em.

If you want to pay thousands for that, go ahead. But paul also contradicts himself and buys stocks that are way down on the day but are at support levels and he takes a shot at them if the stop is close for large r/r.

Just get a copy of the vcm trading manual oliver wrote and use those 4 rules and keep trading in sim till you double your money. find a way to get a copy of olivers trading manual. then you will be all set! Even without the manual you can use those 4 rules to make your own system. And by the way, after you are a winning trader you can bend the rules and take counter trend trades, but not often if it is against the 8ma on the daily, just for the 2 and 5 on the daily. thats 60% of it right there and the most important 60%!!!!
 
Quote from pakua42:

Just get a copy of the vcm trading manual oliver wrote and use those 4 rules and keep trading in sim till you double your money. find a way to get a copy of olivers trading manual. then you will be all set! Even without the manual you can use those 4 rules to make your own system.
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Naive viewpoint. Much more typically, following Ollie is a surefire path to failure. Good luck with that.

Also, regarding 'great traders' => If Paul is a great trader, then why does he go from one trader education job to another, following Ollie? A great trader would be working independently and 'teaching'.

Not long ago, the trading record of a fellow long time 'great trader' from Pristine (and Ollie right-hand man) was exposed in the Tuco court documents and found to be a consistent loser in his personal trading.
 
they do teach the material, even though it's way overpriced.
always trying to sell ,sell
watch out for the chat rooms though, they don't seem to follow their own rules, trades seem to go nowhere, trading against the trend ,could be dangerous to follow especially if you are just learning
 
I have this same experience,being in the room for several weeks....Sometimes,when you state your arguments,the only answer is that if you take another advanced course everything will be explained...
I definitely don't like this policy.An advanced course should clarify things and maybe get into more details about specific conditions that may appear in the markets.An advanced course cannot discount what is presented in the basic course,because then the trader will be more confused than ever...

Please see your p.m.
 
Have you had conversations with your broker about what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong?

The thing about brokers is that they see what a lot of people are doing. They have a combined experience of their own trading and the trading of their clients.

Who is your broker?
 
I don't have experience with pristine. But, I am strongly suspect of most futures day trading vendors. I would request a track record preferably a 3rd party track record before committing money with any vendor. You either want a third party audited record or a real money record (with INDEPENDENT sources that can attest too what they do ) or preferably both. Records on vendor websites are not credible.

The course is likely to be basic TA that can be found for free online or in any book. The way I've found success in the markets is far different then what is commonly taught. I would seek out an independent mentor, if it was me. just saying.

I'd say the most promising program I've seen is SMB. I've no experience with them. But, they seem to focus on more then just TA. Their courses are very expensive, and I would not pay for them either unless their top traders would open the books for me and promise ongoing support. Anything less is gullible and weakness. A vendor, whether it be SMB or anyone else who does any less is: NOT CREDIBLE. There are too many snake oil slickers in this business. Again I am in NO WAY vouching for SMB and they would have to pass a strong litmus test.

Bone's course here does interest me. However, he comes across as a crass person and therefore I would not sign with him because of the way he acts. Interestingly, it is not uncommon for vendors here to paint themselves in a terrible light.

BTW Bone, Brett Steenbarger posted on EliteTrader and said he was a trader and traded. Do a search for his username.
 
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