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Price/Volume Relationship
- Thread starter bluedemon77
- Start date
I see we are back to the P-V again and so here we go for better or worse.
Firstly as traders we fall into 3 broad buckets with P-V.
1 ... those who discard vol because they fail to understand it. This is an interesting bucket because if you fail to understand P-V then you will not know that you have confined yourself to bucket # 1. Hence all the silly posts on ET.
2 ... those who trade consistently with P-V
3 ... those who fully understand P-V and have traded consistently with it but now no longer use vol because it is inherent in their reading of the market price.
To say that vol is leading or trailing is about as useful as saying that price advances and retraces.
I could tell you that the tide comes in and go out for all the good it would do.
Volume counts EVERY trade at the bid/ask (or in between)
And so without volume there would be no markets ... it is that simple.
A while ago, Prof L convinced me with his logic to give vol charts a try.
I did, I have tweaked my logic to suit and quite frankly I would never go back to time charts.
The essence IMO is to tweak the vol bar in tune with the price action.
The thing to bear in mind is to bring price and vol in line.
If you are buying while others are hammering the bid, then you are gambling IMO.
If you are selling while others are hammering the bid then you are trading IMO.
Firstly as traders we fall into 3 broad buckets with P-V.
1 ... those who discard vol because they fail to understand it. This is an interesting bucket because if you fail to understand P-V then you will not know that you have confined yourself to bucket # 1. Hence all the silly posts on ET.
2 ... those who trade consistently with P-V
3 ... those who fully understand P-V and have traded consistently with it but now no longer use vol because it is inherent in their reading of the market price.
To say that vol is leading or trailing is about as useful as saying that price advances and retraces.
I could tell you that the tide comes in and go out for all the good it would do.
Volume counts EVERY trade at the bid/ask (or in between)
And so without volume there would be no markets ... it is that simple.
A while ago, Prof L convinced me with his logic to give vol charts a try.
I did, I have tweaked my logic to suit and quite frankly I would never go back to time charts.
The essence IMO is to tweak the vol bar in tune with the price action.
The thing to bear in mind is to bring price and vol in line.
If you are buying while others are hammering the bid, then you are gambling IMO.
If you are selling while others are hammering the bid then you are trading IMO.
James Fowler is Harvard guy http://jhfowler.ucsd.edu/cv.pdf
Quote from fearless9:
I see we are back to the P-V again and so here we go for better or worse.
Firstly as traders we fall into 3 broad buckets with P-V.
1 ... those who discard vol because they fail to understand it. This is an interesting bucket because if you fail to understand P-V then you will not know that you have confined yourself to bucket # 1. Hence all the silly posts on ET.
2 ... those who trade consistently with P-V
3 ... those who fully understand P-V and have traded consistently with it but now no longer use vol because it is inherent in their reading of the market price.
To say that vol is leading or trailing is about as useful as saying that price advances and retraces.
I could tell you that the tide comes in and go out for all the good it would do.
Volume counts EVERY trade at the bid/ask (or in between)
And so without volume there would be no markets ... it is that simple.
A while ago, Prof L convinced me with his logic to give vol charts a try.
I did, I have tweaked my logic to suit and quite frankly I would never go back to time charts.
The essence IMO is to tweak the vol bar in tune with the price action.
The thing to bear in mind is to bring price and vol in line.
If you are buying while others are hammering the bid, then you are gambling IMO.
If you are selling while others are hammering the bid then you are trading IMO.
Too bad ET doesn't have a "good post" button like t2w. This should be framed and mounted by the beginner's monitor.
LC
Just to expound on the PV discussion, and with all due respect to Prof Logic. If volume bar are superior, then why did Wyckoff use time bars? Were they not available? Most likely? I am just starting to learn about him. He is the PV genius himself correct? The one that started all of this?
Quote from skippy:
i'm phi beta kappa from the university of chicago, and i have no idea what any of this means.
It is just fine that you conclude that you have no idea what any of my post means.
I was responding to a post that was subsequently editied. My bad, I should have waited past the edit time out period.
You may be oriented to the conventional orthodoxy. Most people are.
Convention, founded in the financial industry tradition, Does not deal with pool extraction but, instead, focuses on EMH or CMH. The consequence of this is where you find yourself.
In the place you have chosen, gaming and probability has led to many many measures of market performance and those levels of making money are biblical in nature at this point.
you may wish to refer to Larry Harris. He, in Traders and Exchanges, notes on page 199 in a chart of the kinds of traders where most traders fit in.
There you will find some reading material surrounding my orientation. Simply use the chapter references in the chart to go to the information.
Use the box "front runners" to begin your quest for additional knowledge.
Normally, it is impossible for a person to consider any other paradigm than the conventional orthodoxy.
I am very glad for this. The reason is that it keeps people away from what I recommend to make money. It is like the filter you use: the Phi Beta Kappa filter. Other people use mensa, etc.. They all work for their puposes.
What I do, as practiced by others who use my methods, is "unbelievable" to those who advocate the conventional orthodoxy. This fact is the demonstration of the "filter" that I enjoy to keep people away from me who are not going to be using what I do.
From a Venn point of view, it is possible that there is an overlap among SCT and PVT users and PBK, Mensa, and the honorary frats. For filtering, I have several means to keep people away from me that are not good to have connections too. The paradigm is the most helpful. My writing style is forceful as well, since I know reading does not help people to become traders.
I filter with drills as well. I find, immediately, whether or not a person can carry out a drill type learning process.
I also use a trading protective devise that is the opposite of whipsaw trading. That is, if you make a mistake, then when you recognize and correct it, you have made a small amount of money in the meantime between the making of the mistake and the action you took to correct it. This facet of trading is generally impossible for a person not doing SCT or PVT to accept as a possibility.
Take trader666. He has done remarkable dilligence to prove to himself (and to othrs like him) that nothing, in part or in whole that I do works in any way. He, fortunately, has filtered himself out of the learning process that I advocate.
Another excellent filter was posting prints. A person who blew up here in late 2006, showed ET how I had used software to fake my print. Ther last time I was banned was in part a consequence of my relating to a person who demanded to see my prints or i should not post. He has filtered himself out of the learning process as well.
The choices people make are theirs to make and they do it by anyprocess they desire.
I advocate for people being rich and, therefore, free to contribute to society as they choose.
How it works and the extend to which trading works, is something on which I have very strong opinions.
People who know me also know my standard is excellence.
See if you can get the ideas below straight. The only reson to do this is to be able to see the elephant inthe room, so to speak.
With regards to markets:
1. The huge pools of capital are there for anyone who wishes to extract.
2. Money is made by participating in price change of market instruments.
3. To make the money being offered you have to be in the market.
4. to be in the markets continually, you have to be on the right side of the market continually.
Hence the paradigm is called "pool extraction".
SCT is Seamless Continuous Trading. It operates during RTH's to do the extraction.
The measure of performance is effectiveness, efficiency and optimization.
Because I have traded in the markets for almost 50 years, when people observe me they see a person trading using "sports memory". To avoid being a show off in front of groups, I usually trade on their level since that is the place where their questions arise. Some people have told me that when they looked at my prints and the T&S that what I did was impossible to do. That is how it is for those people. For me my prints are what the computer comes up with as the time passes.
Some people will read this post and "get it". Others will not "get it".
About 20 people signed a Rawlins 700F last Monday afternoon. They had 32 hours contact with me over four days where I did 12 presentations (2hours each with illustrations) and several real time trading sessions (they are video taped in advance and untouched; I advance the video tape as we do the trading at a rapid pace in time). These 20 people get it and are on their way to wealth and becoming experts in the next 6 months.
Thet "got it". They have every idea of what I am typing. They live it. They accepted the opportunity they saw. They chose the opposite of your choice.
My filters are working splendidly. Ask them if they think the filter worked for you and trader666 and bearbelly, etc.
Look at those who trade with Prof; they made the decision to get on board and use a method that is right down the alley for them. He is a professional. I am just an amateur; I happen to have a little more freedom than he does; I give away my stuff to those that chose to do the work to carry out the learning process.
Skip the pool extraction paradigm and follow the conventional orthodoxy or anything you wish.
Quote from dandxg:
Just to expound on the PV discussion, and with all due respect to Prof Logic. If volume bar are superior, then why did Wyckoff use time bars? Were they not available? Most likely? I am just starting to learn about him. He is the PV genius himself correct? The one that started all of this?
You better go back a little further to see the beginnings.
Quote from jack hershey:
I was responding to a post that was subsequently editied. My bad, I should have waited past the edit time out period.
.
You may need to slow down Jack. I think youre getting your posts mixed up. You quoted my post in your response. How could your quote have been edited?