Price and Volume

Quote from NihabaAshi:

First, I said volume was necessary for those starting out (beginning) as price action traders.

And so on.
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You continue to use a definition of "alone" that is not alone at all. You are also making universal extrapolations from a small group of people who may or may not be experienced and who may or may not be profitable. As for my comment that those who say that volume isn't necessary generally don't understand it or how to use it was not limited to beginners (this is based on twenty years' experience).

As for an ET poll, you have to be kidding.

The only thing that is "higher level" is making more money than somebody else. How one does it is immaterial.

LC
 
Quote from Lamont_C:

You continue to use a definition of "alone" that is not alone at all. You are also making universal extrapolations from a small group of people who may or may not be experienced and who may or may not be profitable. As for my comment that those who say that volume isn't necessary generally don't understand it or how to use it was not limited to beginners (this is based on twenty years' experience).

As for an ET poll, you have to be kidding.

The only thing that is "higher level" is making more money than somebody else. How one does it is immaterial.

LC
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First, thanks for the clarification about the intentions of your commentary...

don't understand it or how to use it.

As for the past ET poll, I stated it to make it clear that it involves ET members (sample group outside my personal friends) after you stated (not implied) that my sample group was not the world.

As to the profitability level of the ET poll voters...

You are correct, I do not know if they are profitable due to the lack of verification especially since the poll was not about their profit level.

As for traders I personally know (as in person)...

I do know with verification their profit level.

Thus, they carry more weight and rightfully so.

However, I'm trying to get you out of that frame mind I've seen you in many times before in the past here at ET when you were involved in those heated arguments with traders that stated volume was useless.

You seem to have forgotten that I was one of the ones that openly stated many times that volume was very useful for price action only traders.

Simply, I think you're still stuck in that frame mind of arguing the following...

Is volume useful or not?

Especially considering you made that commentary towards me in your reply that you've now clarified.

Let me make it clear one more time, volume is useful and I hope there's no debate such between us.

Yet, I no longer need volume in my trading and I haven't missed a beat without it mainly due to the fact that I have a better understanding of changes in supply/demand that's reflected in price on my charts.

Here's a question for you...

You able to remove volume from your charts and still maintain and/or increase your profit level???

Yep, that's a trick question and you already know my answer if you were to ask me the same. :cool:

By the way, don't get hung up on the use/definition of the words alone or only especially considering others that you reguarly converse with here at ET and T2W that use volume also use it on a few occasions.

For example, when I see a trader at ET or T2W state the following...

I use only Price with Volume.

Although English isn't my primary language...

I do know that they meant to say the following...

I use Price & Volume only.

Nothing worthwhile getting britches all bundle up about.

It's kind'uv like debating about if Volume itself is an indicator.

Thus, not worthwhile debating about the definition of volume and its classification.

You can see volume in price without actual volume. To do that requires many years of screen time.

Mark
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

First, thanks for the clarification about the intentions of your commentary...


And so on.
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If you're going to claim that trading on price "alone" is "higher level" than trading with price and volume, then claim that all the things you use with price don't count because they aren't volume, getting "hung up on words" seems to be a logical step.

If you no longer use volume in your trading, good for you. But that does not make anyone who doesn't use volume in his trading ipso facto a "higher level" trader.

LC
 
Quote from Lamont_C:

If you're going to claim that trading on price "alone" is "higher level" than trading with price and volume, then claim that all the things you use with price don't count because they aren't volume, getting "hung up on words" seems to be a logical step.

If you no longer use volume in your trading, good for you. But that does not make anyone who doesn't use volume in his trading ipso facto a "higher level" trader.

LC
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First of all, I asked you a serious question that you did not answer.

Secondly, I've already explained my use of the phrase higher level to X-11 in this thread.

You obviously didn't read it and there's no need for me to repost it.

However, I will rephrase it just in case you did read it but didn't understand it.

The issue is not about volume...

As your trading improves and you develop a better understanding of the market after many years of trading...

Can a trader be profitable via just trading by price all by itself on a chart (rhetorical question)???

Yes and I've met many traders in person along with verification that such is possible.

Heck, I'm not one to dispute their claims considering that most of my trading is that way too. :cool:

I'm also saying a trader most likely gets to that level of trading only after trading successfully with other tools like volume in the past.

Thus, I've never met a profitable price action only trader that did not use volume profitably at one point or another in the past.

I'm sure someone out there exist but I've never met someone in person like that.

Further, I'm talking about a passage (route if you may) that involves many years of trading...something that is naturally traverse as we develop a better understanding of price itself with each passing year.

I'm not saying the every trader will take that particular passage I'm talking about because you haven't after 20 years of trading.

I'm saying that I've learned that there are more important things (other edges) outside our entry signals.

Many threads here at ET about edges. Thus, I'm not talking about anything that's earth shaking.

Just the same, during this passage of better understanding the markets and profitably trading...

There's a better understanding of what really causes changes in supply/demand.

Yet, when you get to that level of trading and only if you take that passage...

You'll realize you can maintain or improve your profit level without volume or anything else because you can see those things (changes in supply/demand) in price itself on your chart.

Therefore, I can sit here and state it's a higher level of trading because I completely understand that successful trading is more than just entry signals.

Here are some more questions for you.

Do you think you're a better trader today than when you were 20 years ago???

If so, can it be said that your trading is at a higher level than when it was 20 years ago???

Try to answer those questions without thinking nor debating about volume and you'll understand my point.

On that note, a popular Price & Volume trader here at ET once told me many years ago...

Price & Volume is the begining of the journey, not the end of the journey.

You can see the volume in price without actual volume. To do that requires many years of screen time.

That's my point.

P.S. If you want, you can replace the word volume in the above quote with anything you want (e.g. s/r, pivots, volatility et cetera).

Mark
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:


You can see the volume in price without actual volume. To do that requires many years of screen time.
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So do you think volume charts are superior to time charts? They are price action charts. Anek would say yes, and he would also say wide range bars are evil. (Not sure why he thinks this but he has stated this in his thread).

And why spend "many years" of screen time to see "volume in price" when you can just plot it below price on your chart?

If it takes years to become a price action trader without using volume then it must be a harder way to trade it seems.
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:
Yet, I no longer need volume in my trading and I haven't missed a beat without it mainly due to the fact that I have a better understanding of changes in supply/demand that's reflected in price on my charts.
Mark
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Yes that is right. There is something more accurate and more useful than volume. Its called price.
 
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