Price and Volume
- Thread starter ganesh6
- Start date
Thanks for the links. I actually found those threads already. They're not exactly a one-stop explanation of SCT, since you have to go through the threads post by post and even a cursory examination shows that a bunch of questions arise right away and Spyder has to deal with them as they come up.
I was unaware that there is a separate system for futs than for equities.
I do understand that nothing comes easily and it's not that I mind hard work. I have spent years studying trading. I suppose if I'm really interested I would have to wade through the thousands of posts and figure it out. I probably wouldn't do that unless I saw a video of the system being traded in real time or a thread where intraday picks were given in real time with time stamps. Surely if someone is a true believer and is spending hundreds if not thousands of hours teaching the system here on ET, it would be trivially easy to trade it for one day with someone sitting next to you entering the trades on ET s that you wouldn't have the distraction of trying to post and trade at the same time.
It is somewhat odd to me that either this or a clear cut Camtasia video has not yet surfaced.
By the way, I dislike people running Spydertrader down for his belief in SCT. As far as I can tell, this has been an unpaid effort for him (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). If this is true, then you must acknowledge his commitment, regardless of what you think about the system.
Hi Nik,
I am an avid student of Jack and Spyders principles and I would summarize the technique in my own words as such:
Jack techniques, (PVT, SCT, Whatever you want to call it) emphasize a series of techniques that teach the trader how to "see" the market through repetitive series of tasks (Monitor, Analyse, Decide, Act). These techniques can be applied to any market. (whatever market you choose, as long as there is sufficient liquidity (i.e. volume) to prevent gross manipulation).
As the trader develops his/her skills in the fundamental techniques, they layer in additional tools (course, medium, fine) which help them to refine their ability to extract more and more of the markets potential (here is where the multiple ATR comes into play - which, by the way, is such a silly stumbling block for so many).
As you mature in your mastery of these techniques, you begin to see that markets behave in predictable ways and "see"ing this (these "clues") allows a trader to anticipate moves further and further in advance of their occurance.
Now with regards to posting a camtasia for everyone to see and believe it is possible. While Spyder and/or Jack may perform this, I just dont see a real tangible benefit in doing so. Lets say Jack or Spyder or some other expert posted a camtasia which showed the world a trading day where they extracted 6X the ATR (catching every level and even intrabar moves)...
Would you learn anything from it (other than the fact that it is very profiable and can be accomplished - which has already been proven in many posts and threads)?
Would you be able to duplicate it (or better yet glean anything as to what they were thinking/performing to produce these results)?
For me, the obvious answer is no and the questions are rhetorical. So really what is left is to determine if these techniques are of interest to you. If not, there are many ways to make money in the markets. But if so, Tums has provided a great starting place.
Best wishes in your journey!
ehorn, thank you for the sincere reply, I appreciate it. I'm also trying hard to convey the fact that although I have doubts about the reality of calling every swing of every move at the exact top or bottom as shown in the chart that the others posted up, I do not for a second believe that someone couldn't develop a profitable approach to the markets using the [fill in the blank, whatever you call this] principles.
Where I do disagree strongly is with regard to the idea that there would be no use in posting up a real time example of the system being traded. A couple of points. Spyder and Jack have spent literally thousands of hours responding to people who question the method. Instead of doing this, they could simply post a one sentence response to anyone who questions the method. It would consist of a link to either a Camtasia recording or a thread where trades were given with time stamps.
Furthermore, for each of the reasons you give for not posting proof of some kind, I could give an equally compelling reason why it should be provided. Sure it's true that most people couldn't trade it even if they saw it being traded successfully. That's not really the point. The point is to provide some proof that they system is tradable. We are all just anonymous internet personnas who can write whatever we want.
The real question is, why not do this? It would be revolutionary. If they could show SCT (or whatever it's called) calling the tops and bottoms of every move of every swing through the day, what could better explicate all the amazingly involved work they are doing on the threads? The readership of the threads would go through the roof. If they don't want to popularize the system, why in the heck are they spending years doing this for free? If they do want to popularize the system, what better way to do it than to show that it works? Sorry but even though you seem very sincere, I can't take it for granted that you even trade, much less trade successfully, much less trade this method successfully, catching every swing and taking xx times the ATR out of the markets every single day, or even the ATR out every day, or even 1/5 of the ATR every day.
In the end, the question is not 'Why post up this information'. The real question is 'Why not post it up' and silence all the critics once and for all? Also, it would be an fantastic teaching tool since it would provide incredible motivation for the students. I know if I saw a Camtasia video with voice-over showing Sypder or Jack trading the Thursday market that nkhoi posted up, and taking each of those trades, it would literally change my trading. I would have to readjust my schedule for the next 6 months and undertake a rigorous and in-depth analysis of the method and then I would have to try to deploy the strategy myself. That's the point, right? To teach Jack Hershey's methods?
Ok, thanks nkhoi. I didn't know that okguy was T28, thanks for the head up.
That appeals to my sense of humour Tums, I posted the link on the very first page. Aha, what do these people know about the potential of this method? Tell them Tums, everything is laid out in Spyder's journal, live trades have been posted, knowledge shared and success celebrated, what more do they want?
Look what happened to Jesus, did they regret after having crucified him?
Proof, videos, how sad!
Actually, I believe that the profitability of the system has never been shown. The reason I believe this is that there are only two ways to prove that the system (which seems very complicated) actually works and can call the peak and trough of every swing in the trading day. That would be to either post a day's worth of trades in real time here or create a Camtasia video.
As far as I know, neither of these things has ever successfully been done, although there was at one time a suggestion that this would be done. Apparently it never materialized.
It doesn't matter how many sincere sounding people post that they believe the system works. Proof is proof.
Why do people demand proof for this method? Why not demand proof for every method. Well, in a sense, we do. I don't assume anyone on here actually trades until I have proof, and there are very few guys on here that have proven that they trade (riskarb, Rearden Metal, Steve Tvardek, just a few off the top of my head, FT71).
But also, this method is being touted as a successful method. That's the reason that questions about its validity are relevant.