Previous trading experience?

[newwurldmn]

Really?! Would you employ him just because he is smart??

Gecko's motto in Wall Street: Smart Poor and Hungry. Goldman has a history that their partners went to schools like Harvard, but came from blue collar families.

Banks have resources to train individuals. They want to make sure they allocate those resources to employees who will make the most of it.

 

[wwatson1]

I'm not sure, there are allot of people of the kind you mentioned, but there are few that understand and can trade a market successfully, I would have thought the latter would be more sought after

 

[cjbuckley4]

@wwatson1 If the numerous brainteasers these companies ask are designed to be indicative of any one thing, it's probably raw critical thinking ability. That being said, you're right, these places don't take people just because they're smart. That's a rather broad category if you think about it. My girlfriend got a higher SAT score than me, but I don't think many places would be interested in her for a trading or dev role.

What they look for are smart kids from elite STEM backgrounds. They want problem solvers with technical aptitude. Some of the questions they ask are worded like brainteasers, but are really fairly trivial if you apply basic probability, for example. Also, the majority of prop shops have asked me to complete various coding challenges at different stages of my application process. The amount of time that goes into teaching someone to code, the fact being a good programmer isn't really teachable--it's learned over a long period, plus the fact that having a bad programmer around is so unacceptably risky and resource intensive for their business makes it a bad idea to hire people that can't program reasonably well already.

If I had to guess about the rough order of things companies notice when they see my resume its:
1. Ivy League education. Sadly, this does help a lot with getting through the resume reading stage. I'm not saying it's fair, but ask people in the industry. It will help get you a first round interview, but the only take away from a good education past there is what they teach you. I honestly want recruiters to come to my school because the students are well prepared and they've had positive experiences with their recent hires from my school, not because it's a fancy name--and for the most part I think the recruiters interests are generally aligned in that fashion.
2. Math & Stats major, plus I've taken or will take almost all the classes necessary to receive a C.S. degree.
3. Software dev internship. I learned last year that NOBODY wants to give you your first software internship. I learned a lot though and felt good about the work I produced.
4. Finally, they may notice extracurricular stuff like being Captain of a sports team and they may or may not look favorably on my longstanding interest in trading.

Like I said, a demonstrated ability to trade the market is far less important than a demonstrated ability to learn and skills that add value to their businesses.

 

[Fundlord]

I'm not sure, there are allot of people of the kind you mentioned, but there are few that understand and can trade a market successfully, I would have thought the latter would be more sought after

Im sorry but the reality is the philosophy major from harvard, oxford, LSE etc has more chance of getting a job at an investment bank than a guy who turned 5,000 into 50k.

Im sure if you traded a large sum like 250k into millions they may take you seriously at hedge funds but at IB's this really isn't the case. These are public companies who have to answer to shareholders.

There is difference in trading you 100k using some hocus locus edge you may think you have and running a 300 mil fixed income portfolio.

I started a thread on this subject in the past: http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...o-from-retail-to-institutional-trader.293759/

Here are some answers from some of the ET veterans:

1. "The easiest way to go from retail trader to institutional trader is to minimize retail trading and develop the skills that are posted in the job ads.

There is a danger that if you spend too much time retail trading, you will be overly expressive in your trading views and interviewers will see you as a piker. Which you seem to understand.

Entry level jobs at institutions aren't interested in your market prognostications. And, rocket scientists are dime a dozen. So, what the entry level candidate really needs is to present the ability to work on the plumbing." - Xandman


2. "You need to either have:
1) A higher degree (Master or preferable PhD) in prestigious University (whether those place really produce a top rated trader is another topic of discussion)
2) Internship, but it will be mainly driven from 1 above
3) Relationship - A recommendation from someone in industry due to your track record (Quant analysis with consistent profit) or family relationship, e.g your father know the VP in Goldman or something similar. Note: People will run away if you are telling them you make 200% return a year using TA, in which in industry we all know this is BS or just purely gambling." - galvinlee888


3. "Most institutions don't want to hire maverick traders. They want you to fill a role in a machine. They don't need you to be able to fill that role today as it's generally pretty specialized (like trading a particular sub-sector of stocks) but they want to know that you are trainable and will be successful. To this end, if you want to work in the institutional world, you need to prove to the institutions that you are trainable. The easiest way to to that, is to demonstrate your ability to learn in your undergraduate and graduate curriculums. A track record on a small account doesn't prove that you are trainable.

There are some institutional roles that do hire mavericks. For this role, think from the hiring managers perspective. If he's going to get paid or fired by the performance of his hiree, what will he look for that he can explain to his boss if the hiree doesn't work out? "I hired a 21yo from a state school who made 100% on a 10k account punting on fxcm with 50:1 leverage." probably won't carry as much weight as "I hired him to trade Asian currencies because he has a phd in economics from Penn State and studied China's monetary policy actions with respect to their economy"" - Newwurldmn


4. "Your trading experience is the least valuable thing to a potential employer, if you can believe that." -Xandman


5. "I know you don't want to hear the truth and prefer to keep living the fantasy. But, regardless, i will speak truth

It is impossible to go from retail to institutional trader unless you hide the fact that you ever traded retail from your employer.

Institutions don't want retail traders and will avoid them like the plague. They want folks who they can train from the start or those with the experience they happen to be looking for at the time.

Being a retail trader will kill your chances at being hired." - Marketsurfer