Predestination

[stu]

I see that Jesus should be well trained/learned in both Buddhism (e.g. using mainly parables in teaching/preaching) and Stoicism (e.g. everyone/everything is equally part of the universe/God).

In my view OT, had Jesus even existed, he like everyone else need only have been a humanitarian.

 

[OddTrader]

In my view OT, had Jesus even existed, he like everyone else need only have been a humanitarian.

Perhaps also a visionary strategist!

http://www.quno.org/about

 

[marketsurfer]

I think there have been numerous studies and arguments about the true existence of historical Jesus. It's amazing that one single person's verbal teachings and sayings, even without any writings, can change the whole world and human history in almost all aspects of our daily living including calendar, education, laws, cultures, civilisation, management/military organisation system, etc, etc.

" With reference to the Western concept of courage, the "theologian of culture" Paul Tillich (1886-1965) once wrote that Stoicism is "the only real alternative to Christianity in the Western world." https://www3.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/stoic_christian_views.pdf

Stoicism was a much more rational, believable and acceptable system than Judaism before the start of Christianity. But people cannot use Stoicism, without any superstitions, as a religion to make profits! It's possible that the authority of the time really and seriously wanted to produce the Christianity system to replace/suppress Stoicism for better/easier management of the people.

Both Judaism and Stoicism seemed/appeared to accept the existence and development of Christianity during the very early stage of Christianity without much written arguments. It also seemed many believers of Jesus were persecuted during very early stage of spreading words about Jesus.

Therefore, the existence of historical Jesus could be highly Probably true. While removing all the superstitions. Otherwise, Christianity cannot be flourishing without the most critical criticisms recorded from both the Judaism and Stoicism believers/scholars.

Especially from Judaism. Even Judaism traditionally accepts Jesus being a prophet!

Just my 20 cents!

Well said, Odd. I concur with you. The rise of western culture itself is a testament to judeo-christian ethics. I am convinced of this fact.

surf

 

[poorboy]

Are our entire lives predestined?

Predestination (as a doctrine in Christian theology) the divine foreordaining of all that will happen, especially with regard to the salvation of some and not others. It has been particularly associated with the teachings of St. Augustine of Hippo and of Calvin.

I think there is a 'plan." Its black. And a sledgehammer is trying to pound us into its shape.

 

[stu]

In reality, the rise of western culture is a testament to trade and the democratic rule of law, not religious superstition.

 

[OddTrader]

....as well as devastating, warring ,violent, extreme and also the cause of much misery.

Bottom line I think, if you have religious good and you take away religious, you still have the good.

Jesus once said the rain is falling for both good and bad guys.

He also talked a parable about a farmer asked his two sons for helping work, while one promised (as believers) to help without even actually showing up at all, but the other verbally denied (as non-believers) to help finally turning up for helping.

When asked, Jesus replied only God is good!

Separately, he further mentioned a man should not be judgemental.

All of these were very similar to Stoic philosophy - Indifferent. Peace-building messages!

Did Jesus himself form or promote a new religion, nominally or formally?

Has Jesus been interpreted fairly and correctly, and/or truthfully and fully, by his believers or organised religions?

...

 

[stu]

When asked, Jesus replied only God is good!

When asked, Ali Baba replied Open Sesame!

One fantasy aside another .

 

[OddTrader]

When asked, Ali Baba replied Open Sesame!

One fantasy aside another .

An atheist may be too sensitive to the term God nowadays. Partly/mainly due to the God concept is not/never scientific enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

The etymological root for the word atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god(s)". In antiquity it had multiple uses such as a pejorative term applied to those thought to reject the gods worshiped by the larger society.,[13] it could refer to someone who was was forsaken by the gods or someone who had no commitment to the gods.[14] However, the actual term atheism emerged first in the 16th century.[15] With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves using the word atheist lived in the 18th century during the Age of Enlightenment.[16][15] The French Revolution, noted for its "unprecedented atheism," witnessed the first major political movement in history to advocate for the supremacy of human reason.[17]

However according to Stoicism, which was the most popular philosophy during Jesus' era, the construct of God was/is a very scientific one.

God, the nature and natural laws, purposeful/deterministic intelligence, fate and causality, divine reasons and Logos, rational truth and facts, Zeus, the universe and universal laws, cosmos and cosmic laws, divine providence, etc. etc. are all in one.

A Holistic construct that recognises (and beyond) the limitations of human words, vocabulary and writings, or any man-made theories, concepts, constructs, definitions, and imaginations.

Science can be considered as a never-ending process of helping humans to explore more and more knowledge and understanding of this God.

Doctrines

Stoic physics can be described in terms of (a) materialism, (b) dynamic materialism, and (c) monism or pantheism.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoic_physics


Gods

For the Stoics, God is everywhere as the ruler and upholder, and at the same time the law, of the universe. Zeno declared cult images, shrines, temples, sacrifices, prayers and worship to be of no avail. A really acceptable prayer, he taught, can only have reference to a virtuous and devout mind. The Stoics however attempted to defend and uphold the truth in polytheism. Not only was the primitive substance God, the one supreme being, but divinity could be ascribed to the manifestations – to the heavenly bodies, which were conceived, like Plato's created gods, as the highest of rational beings, to the forces of nature, even to deified men; and thus the world was peopled with divine agencies.

 

[kent]

 

[OddTrader]

Galen, the personal physician of Marcus Aurelius - a Roman Emperor and a great Stoic, considered Christianity nothing more than a "third rate" philosophy. ( Can be found by searching ' stoicism early Christianity third rate philosophy ')

More about Galen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

Galen (129–c. 216) noted the optic chiasm is X-shaped. (Engraving from Vesalius, 1543)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen

Early life: AD 129–161

Galen's name Γαληνός, Galēnos comes from the adjective "γαληνός", "calm".[25]

Galen describes his early life in On the affections of the mind. He was born in September AD 129 ;[5] his father, Aelius Nicon, was a wealthy patrician, an architect and builder, with eclectic interests including philosophy, mathematics, logic, astronomy, agriculture and literature. Galen describes his father as a "highly amiable, just, good and benevolent man". At that time Pergamon (modern-day Bergama, Turkey) was a major cultural and intellectual centre, noted for its library, second only to that in Alexandria,[7][26] and attracted both Stoic and Platonic philosophers, to whom Galen was exposed at age 14. His studies also took in each of the principal philosophical systems of the time, including Aristotelian and Epicurean. His father had planned a traditional career for Galen in philosophy or politics and took care to expose him to literary and philosophical influences. However, Galen states that in around AD 145 his father had a dream in which the god Asclepius (Aesculapius) appeared and commanded Nicon to send his son to study medicine. Again, no expense was spared, and following his earlier liberal education, at 16 he began studies at the prestigious local sanctuary or Asclepieum dedicated to Asclepius, god of medicine, as a θεραπευτής (therapeutes, or attendant) for four years. There he came under the influence of men like Aeschrion of Pergamon, Stratonicus and Satyrus. Asclepiea functioned as spas or sanitoria to which the sick would come to seek the ministrations of the priesthood. Romans frequented the temple at Pergamon in search of medical relief from illness and disease. It was also the haunt of notable people such as Claudius Charax the historian, Aelius Aristides the orator, Polemo the sophist, and Cuspius Rufinus the Consul.[5]