Predestination

[heypa]

I believe Einstein responded when asked about time"Time exists so that everything doesn't happen at once."

 

[OddTrader]

Loop quantum gravity: There is no such thing as Time, which is simply an old concept!

https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/...is-simply-an-old-concept.306568/#post-4402816

 

[OddTrader]

Fate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism


Physics and cosmology


According to the Stoics, the universe is a material, reasoning substance, known as God or Nature, which the Stoics divided into two classes, the active and the passive. The passive substance is matter, which "lies sluggish, a substance ready for any use, but sure to remain unemployed if no one sets it in motion."[15] The active substance, which can be called Fate, or Universal Reason (Logos), is an intelligent aether or primordial fire, which acts on the passive matter:

The universe itself is God and the universal outpouring of its soul; it is this same world's guiding principle, operating in mind and reason, together with the common nature of things and the totality that embraces all existence; then the foreordained might and necessity of the future; then fire and the principle of aether; then those elements whose natural state is one of flux and transition, such as water, earth, and air; then the sun, the moon, the stars; and the universal existence in which all things are contained.
— Chrysippus, in Cicero, De Natura Deorum, i. 39

Everything is subject to the laws of Fate, for the Universe acts according to its own nature, and the nature of the passive matter it governs. The souls of people and animals are emanations from this primordial fire, and are, likewise, subject to Fate:

Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one substance and one soul; and observe how all things have reference to one perception, the perception of this one living being; and how all things act with one movement; and how all things are the cooperating causes of all things that exist; observe too the continuous spinning of the thread and the structure of the web.
— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, iv. 40

Individual souls are perishable by nature, and can be "transmuted and diffused, assuming a fiery nature by being received into the Seminal Reason (logos spermatikos) of the Universe."[16] Since right Reason is the foundation of both humanity and the universe, it follows that the goal of life is to live according to Reason, that is, to live a life according to Nature.

 

[Covertibility]

Time is not linear. Free will only exists for those who are able to see time... good luck.

 

[jem]

I see the smiley face... but we really don't know.
There may be "super time" or over time, or inside out time, or emit or anything else outside of the time in our universe...

cuz u iz predetermine not 2


I think "we" do. Without time, no thing would have any time to exist. Without time, why is it not reasonable to understand the only thing that's happening is nothing at all.

 

[Wallet]

there are arguments for pre destination and free will.

Both arguments become moot when you realize that time is illusory and that God exists outside of time because he is outside our universe.

So our lives look like they unfold in chronological orders to us. But and observer outside of universe may see everything all at once. So the observer would know who sought an received salvation while we think we have free will to make our choices.

Eph 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Rom 9:10-16
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


You are correct in that time is a byproduct of creation, the Creator, God is not bound by but exists outside His creation. But while God knows in advance of one's ultimate response to the prompting of his Holy Spirit, He will not circumvent mans free will. For it's by our obedience to his will we recieve blessing, "sovereign grace", and God is glorified.

When you accepted Christ, is a point where God's omnipotence and your free-will met.

 

[murray t turtle]

We do have free will and make our own choices. Knowing all that will happen, as you suggest God can do, and pre ordaining it are two different things.

%%
Good points; + there is not really a conflict with God actually knowing what we will do + our choices.....

 

[Wallet]

We do have free will and make our own choices. Knowing all that will happen, as you suggest God can do, and pre ordaining it are two different things.

I believe that it requires both sides, God's Election and Man's free will.

Something to consider.

Romans 9:17-23


For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

 

[stu]

I see the smiley face... but we really don't know.
There may be "super time" or over time, or inside out time, or emit or anything else outside of the time in our universe...

"We" really do know. It would essentially still be............time.

 

[stu]

the Creator, God is not bound by but exists outside His creation.

and another Creator not bound by God creation exists outside Its creation.