Predatory Trading System Invented

[Samsara]

Quote from MarkBrown:

i have actually manipulated price action successfully in the past at one time i had over a millon people following a system that i published trades hourly. it dawned on me one day when someone asked the question which changed my life. that question was - do you know in advance what the trade will be prior to posting it? then i got it. i became a vampire trader taking what i needed but not killing my prey.

this only works if you help others cumulatively make more money than you take so everyone can survive. help others and you help yourself. now consider that most everyone can not come up with one successful method to give away let alone create a parallel system that feeds off it. there are many institutions using systems i have written and so nothing will change unless they stop making money so who cares.

it is much easier to trade a system against a well working system then it is to trade against the market. large institutions are like a goose and i am a hummingbird.

m

You mentioned earlier profiting off the slippage caused by turtles entering into their trades. It sounds here as if you're talking about something similar: publishing a working method that causes slippage and then designing a counter-trade system that exploits that.

Am I misreading? Interesting idea. Not something I'd try to do (sounds like it'd decay quickly), and it might raise a few regulatory eyebrows, but interesting all the same.

 

[MarkBrown]

Quote from Samsara:

You mentioned earlier profiting off the slippage caused by turtles entering into their trades. It sounds here as if you're talking about something similar: publishing a working method that causes slippage and then designing a counter-trade system that exploits that.

Am I misreading? Interesting idea. Not something I'd try to do (sounds like it'd decay quickly), and it might raise a few regulatory eyebrows, but interesting all the same.

ah the regulators, of course we can't have people being smart and making money can we. that would be un-communistic and down right un-american what was i thinking. so until they close down all communication all over the world i guess information and the distribution of it will always circumvent regulators in the us.

what your talking about is trying to regulate superior knowledge, wit and experience. duh ok yea i could see that happening it has in the past.

oddball system worked very well for many years until it became wildly known and a frenzy of traders destroyed it.
http://newsletter.neoticker.com/2005/08/08/oddball-system-an-update/
and so it lives on with many variations as you can see just search oddball system
http://newsletter.neoticker.com/2005/12/21/better-oddball-system/

 

[LEAPup]

Should be an interesting thread.

 

[MarkBrown]

Quote from LEAPup:

Should be an interesting thread.

the idea is simple suck some blood from your prey but not so much as to kill it.

or if you had rather think about the birds who groom cattle by eating the insects off them. this would be a good example of win - win.

now just think of a bird that was smart enough to lead the cattle into a condition that makes the having of insects possible and flourish all so the bird could then feast.

m

 

[Samsara]

Quote from MarkBrown:

ah the regulators, of course we can't have people being smart and making money can we. that would be un-communistic and down right un-american what was i thinking. so until they close down all communication all over the world i guess information and the distribution of it will always circumvent regulators in the us.

what your talking about is trying to regulate superior knowledge, wit and experience. duh ok yea i could see that happening it has in the past.

oddball system worked very well for many years until it became wildly known and a frenzy of traders destroyed it.
http://newsletter.neoticker.com/2005/08/08/oddball-system-an-update/
and so it lives on with many variations as you can see just search oddball system
http://newsletter.neoticker.com/2005/12/21/better-oddball-system/

Just me, but I'd prefer to just put something together that works and never tell a soul. Alter it over time with changing market conditions.

People's point of view in seeing market behavior often is tied with their own self view. It seems part of what you gain in the markets is the feeling of mastering others, so your method appeals to that. I used to trade prop and was taught a few edges based on picking off discrepancies in order handling. Tape reading the NYSE specialist was basically that also. All of those edges decay quickly though -- it's now my personal opinion that it helps long term to trade with the market regimes as a whole and have statistics to back it up; less so by identifying momentary statistical edges.

At any rate, while I agree the regulators are hopelessly out in the woods as professional ball-droppers, it's fairly easy to target something like this if you're managing OPM. If not, you may have something that works for a while. Best o' luck.

 

[Crispy]

Back in the olden days we called it "frontrunning".

 

[MarkBrown]

Quote from Crispy:

Back in the olden days we called it "frontrunning".

to front run you have to have control or be in the chain of control of the order flow, someone with a fiduciary responsibility to the client. i owe the public nothing they make their own decisions.

besides let's say i am in control of the customers money and i am accused of front running. your justice see after i place the customers order to buy - i decided in my own account to go short. duh sounds like a criminal to me.

m

granted i know i will come under fire from the masses of ignorance who always try and drag you back into the fold but there has to exist wolves.

 

[Crispy]

Quote from MarkBrown:


granted i know i will come under fire from the masses of ignorance who always try and drag you back into the fold but there has to exist wolves.

I guess you cant hear tongue in cheek comments when posted as text.

 

[LEAPup]

Quote from MarkBrown:

the idea is simple suck some blood from your prey but not so much as to kill it.

or if you had rather think about the birds who groom cattle by eating the insects off them. this would be a good example of win - win.

now just think of a bird that was smart enough to lead the cattle into a condition that makes the having of insects possible and flourish all so the bird could then feast.

m

Makes sense! Again, should be an interesting thread.

 

[TD80]

Mark,

Are you seeing significant non-random order flow behavior on say, events that would trigger an entry based on your oddball system? You are then taking the opposite side of the trade when the order flow goes back to random in appearance (aka everyone is piled in on the oddball signal)?