Pre-Marital Trading Accounts. No money ever entered from marriage. 50/50 in divorce or not?

[rallymode]

Good luck with that. No way. Not unless you have some sort of preexisting (prior to marriage) family trust structure.

For example, both your 401K contributions during the marriage and the gains on those contributions, even though "passive" during the marriage are community property subject to equal division by the Court.

No way what? "Passive" gains on "separate" property are not divisible. Period. You seem to be confusing separate property with marital. Did you read the link i posted for a quick reference or do you just like to argue?

As for 401K contributions, they have nothing to do with setting up a passive structure. They are presumably from "marital" assets so even though they are passive they came from active property and hence divisible.

And yes, a proper structure set up pre marriage is the best way to classify your assets as "separate" property and then you must keep them in a "passive" form. Sounds like you needed a better lawyer.

 

[bone]

Ummm, I've been through this, have you? This exact thing. And paid a shit ton of attorneys fees to find out.

Unless you have a separate family trust structure that was set up prior to your marriage, or unless you have a pre-nuptial agreement in place - any capital gains you make during your marriage are the property of both spouses. "Passive" has nothing to do with it. Doesn't matter that those gains were made on an account set up before the marriage. Doesn't matter if you file taxes jointly or separately.

No way what? "Passive" gains on "separate" property are not divisible. Period.

 

[murray t turtle]

To the best of my knowledge, the trading capital pre marriage is yours since it's considered "separate" property not marital. The gains during marriage can also be entirely yours but to keep them classified as "separate" the management of the capital has to be considered "passive". Day trading would be impossible to classify as passive but investing in the spy or a hedge fund would be.

If you can automate your trading or pay someone to do it for you then potentially you could keep all the gains too.

https://mbafcpa.com/advisories/differentiating-active-vs-passive-appreciation-divorce/

%%
And try to settle out of court; looks like the husband ''won in /Blair v Blair'' ;
but he had to appeal/more legal fees. And his boat dealership was hurt also by new overpass right in front of his minority owned boat dealership/even though the wife's appraiser was ruled against...………………….. IF he started daytrading or used a hedge fund/most likely both incomes were reduced. Investing in spy; most likely both got profits off that.; unless he got so mad he planned to lose in spy/some do

 

[rallymode]

Unless you have a separate family trust structure that was set up prior to your marriage, or unless you have a pre-nuptial agreement in place - any capital gains you make during your marriage are the property of both spouses. Doesn't matter that those gains were made on an account set up before the marriage.

Going through something doesn't prove competence.

So no way to prove the capital was yours pre-marriage and that the gains came from passive management? Sure, in that case it's divisible. Going into a marriage in such a manner is reckless to say the least.

 

[bone]

Your point and your link are pointless to the OP, I'm afraid. Going by his original post it appears that he traded those accounts during the marriage. Any gains he made by trading during the marriage are joint property. But the equity in those trading accounts up to the amount that was there the day prior to his marriage license date is indeed his own separate property.

"Passive" separate income as far as financial markets accounts go are almost always trust structures set up by the family prior to the marriage and managed by a third party.

If the husband owns a 1982 Les Paul Silverburst Custom that he paid $2000 for as a single man, and during the divorce it is appraised at $7500 - that's all his. The spouse has no right to the "passive" appreciation of a separate property.

But if the husband opens a trading account with $100K before the marriage, and during the marriage the husband either trades it frequently or quite infrequently and realizes gains of $150K - $100K is indeed the husband's separate property but $150K is joint property subject to equitable distribution by the Court. Which means 50/50 on the $150K. Even if the spouse is working and makes more salary than he does. If the wife does not work and she is not employable above minimum wage, she will likely get more than 50/50.

Going through something doesn't prove competence.

So no way to prove the capital was yours pre-marriage and that the gains came from passive management? Sure, in that case it's divisible. Going into a marriage in such a manner is reckless to say the least.

 

[rallymode]

Your point and your link are pointless to the OP, I'm afraid. Going by his original post it appears that he traded those accounts during the marriage.

The OP never said he was already married. He also never said how those trading accounts are titled. My advice is still valid.

If he is already married and the accounts are titled under his name, sure it's all a fair game.

 

[bone]

I would argue that at present in the current family court environment in the United States men have no incentive to get married.

The family court system in the US is so adversarial by design that an unmarried single father probably has more rights than a divorced father has in his Joint Parenting Agreement. In fact, in the State of Illinois, a divorced father is on the hook for college expenses but an unmarried father has no financial support obligations past 18 years of age.

Going into a marriage in such a manner is reckless to say the least.

 

[bone]

Scenario: Substantial trading accounts all funded pre-marriage. Trading all during marriage of those pre-marital trading accounts with occasional withdrawals to bring money into the marriage to live on.

Question: In Divorce, will those accounts remain the 100% owner of the person who was trading pre-marriage with the pre-marital money?

OP's question is: "In Divorce, will those accounts remain the 100% owner of the person who was trading pre-marriage with the pre-marital money?"

And the answer is: only the amount of equity that was in those trading accounts prior to the date of the marriage license is 100% the separate property of the person whose name is on the account. Any gains made by trading that account after the date of the marriage license are joint property subject to equitable distribution by the Court.

The OP never said he was already married. He also never said how those trading accounts are titled. My advice is still valid.

If he is already married and the accounts are titled under his name, sure it's all a fair game.

 

[newwurldmn]

No, from what I've seen those soon-to-be-ex spouses are just as bitter and vengeful as the others. Only they have more resources to hire experts like forensic accountants and private investigators.

Cougars require much cash flow. It's expensive servicing that young D.

with the exception of Michael strahan, I’ve never heard of a super wealthy person splitting assets 50-50.

 

[jalee802]

Real question is how much does each party pay their attorney?
Should have made the broad sign a prenup.