PPT Exists ! ! !

[the1]

It's no theory and there is no conspiracy. It's a widely accepted fact that isn't talked about much. Greenspan mentions it in his book. The FED conducts Federal Open Market Operations through the Federal Open Market Committee. This includes buying futures on the futures exchange, not just buying and selling bonds in the bond market.

Conspiracy theorists believe the FED buys S&P futures to manipulate the market higher during times such as now. This isn't the case. They buy to support the market during a collapse and if you were paying attention to the market behavior last fall you'll quickly realize they were out there doing just that.

 

[FredBloggs]

anyway, whats the big fuss about?

its a proven fact - so obvious that perhaps its not even worth stating - other than to remind us that almost every country manipulates in the currency markets to support/depress their own currency according to fiscal requirements. only then its called 'intervention'

what would be the big surprise be to find that it also happens in the equity markets for similar reasons?

big deal.

end of thread.

nice try.

 

[lurefo]

Quote from sjfan:

Now you are just spitting out tautology.

I wouldn't have to had you understood my point the first time.

Quote from sjfan:

Look, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

These are not extraordinary claims, after all, the FED as it has been pointed out takes action on a variety of markets.

The "proof" could be seen if we could audit the FED. But guess what...

Quote from sjfan:

You are the one supposing the existence of a secret cabal that "manipulates" the stock market.

"secret cabal" ...talk about tautology... don't make the popular mistake to hide behind these words to assume that some behaviors/actions don't exist.

Quote from sjfan:

We pointed out that the Fed can do so without being secret, without being hidden, and in fact would work better if they weren't.

There is no proof that it would work better if their stock market operations were public. In fact, some could say that the opposite is true.

Quote from sjfan:

So, again, where's your support for your claim? There's no evidence (no, ranting on the internet and the thoughts of an analyst on TV don't count). There's no motivation. If this were a police investigation, it wouldn't even make it to the grand jury.

I suggest you do your own homework. I will not do it for you, collect and post links to paper or internet articles, etc about the PPT's existence and their stock market operations (although I believe Asulovic posted some links). If you want to take the time, there are plenty of references on the internet.

Start with the beginning, ie the 1988 Working Group creation by R.Reagan.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from the1:

It's no theory and there is no conspiracy. It's a widely accepted fact that isn't talked about much. Greenspan mentions it in his book. The FED conducts Federal Open Market Operations through the Federal Open Market Committee. This includes buying futures on the futures exchange, not just buying and selling bonds in the bond market.

Conspiracy theorists believe the FED buys S&P futures to manipulate the market higher during times such as now. This isn't the case. They buy to support the market during a collapse and if you were paying attention to the market behavior last fall you'll quickly realize they were out there doing just that.

when do they sell?

 

[sjfan]

"I wouldn't have to had you understood my point the first time."

I called your argument tautological and your reply is that it is? Nice job there, logician.

"There is no proof that it would work better if their stock market operations were public. In fact, some could say that the opposite is true."

Those people are idiots. 50 years of economic research in monetary policy, transmission mechanisms, and game theory has shown just the opposite. Same as in mutually assured destruction, policy works best when people know about it. It's an amplification effect.

Anyway, I'm arguing with a fanatic. Shame on me.

Quote from lurefo:

I wouldn't have to had you understood my point the first time.


These are not extraordinary claims, after all, the FED as it has been pointed out takes action on a variety of markets.

The "proof" could be seen if we could audit the FED. But guess what...



"secret cabal" ...talk about tautology... don't make the popular mistake to hide behind these words to assume that some behaviors/actions don't exist.



There is no proof that it would work better if their stock market operations were public. In fact, some could say that the opposite is true.



I suggest you do your own homework. I will not do it for you, collect and post links to paper or internet articles, etc about the PPT's existence and their stock market operations (although I believe Asulovic posted some links). If you want to take the time, there are plenty of references on the internet.

Start with the beginning, ie the 1988 Working Group creation by R.Reagan.

 

[the1]

Who knows but I'll guess when you buy.

If you were watching the movement of the futures following MLK day in 2008 you'll have all the evidence you need to know the PPT exists. I don't remember the exact price level but the ES futures went limit down at -70 points. Once the instrument came off limit down the price was supported 1 tick above limit down for the remainder of the morning, which ranged from about 1am to 8:30am ET. Precisely at 8:30am the FED cut the discount rate and the FED Funds rate by 50 basis points (I think it was 50). The future went into the stratosphere. Coincidence? Not a chance.

Then there was that 1000 point Dow reversal later that year. Think about that -- a thousand freaking Dow point, <b>intra-day.</b>

Quote from vhehn:

when do they sell?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from the1:

Who knows but I'll guess when you buy.

If you were watching the movement of the futures following MLK day in 2008 you'll have all the evidence you need to know the PPT exists. I don't remember the exact price level but the ES futures went limit down at -70 points. Once the instrument came off limit down the price was supported 1 tick above limit down for the remainder of the morning, which ranged from about 1am to 8:30am ET. Precisely at 8:30am the FED cut the discount rate and the FED Funds rate by 50 basis points (I think it was 50). The future went into the stratosphere. Coincidence? Not a chance.

Then there was that 1000 point Dow reversal later that year. Think about that -- a thousand freaking down point, <b>intra-day.</b>

the trouble with you conspiricy nuts is you cant think logically. if the fed buys tons of futures they have to do something with them.
not to mention the mechanics of it all. futures trades can be tracked. why do you think it is that some lowly disgruntled employee at gs has not spilled the beans and wrote a book about the fed buying the market? it is gs that buys for the fed right? or does the fed have a futures account in their name?

 

[lurefo]

If your only argument to say that PPT doesn't exist is that there is no public statement of stock market's operations, you might want to review your thinking. It's a bit thin to say the least.

No need for 50 yrs of pretentious academic research to see that.

Quote from sjfan:


Anyway, I'm arguing with a fanatic.

Yeah, yeah, fanatics, wackos, idiot conspiracy theorists... we've heard them all since the thread started. Suprisingly, there is no logical argument in the posts of those who use that language.

Quote from sjfan:

Shame on me.

There you go, something we agree on.

 

[sjfan]

My argument for that it doesn't exist is that (a) there's no evidence and (b) there's no motivation to exist. Given that the lack of those two items would end most police investigations, shouldn't that tell you something about the case for PPT?

Quote from lurefo:

If your only argument to say that PPT doesn't exist is that there is no public statement of stock market's operations, you might want to review your thinking. It's a bit thin to say the least.

 

[FredBloggs]

Quote from vhehn:

the trouble with you conspiricy nuts is you cant think logically. if the fed buys tons of futures they have to do something with them.
not to mention the mechanics of it all. futures trades can be tracked. why do you think it is that some lowly disgruntled employee at gs has not spilled the beans and wrote a book about the fed buying the market? it is gs that buys for the fed right? or does the fed have a futures account in their name?

even though i have declared this thread over....

a few years back when this ppt stuff was all the talk of et, didnt someone figure out it was gcho who cleared ppt the the 880n account or something?