Post War America

hapaboy · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

The responses from people are good, but my focus is not necessarily on policy, but oh how America responds from a psychological perspective.

Will people hold back purchases because of the thought of the next war, will corporate America do the same?

I don't know if we are built to survive the costs of this long term war, which I don't think can easily be won when it comes to religious fanaticism.

How do people think Americana is going to deal with this?

Can we really learn to function like Israel, under the constant threat of war and reprisal and still get on with our lives as productively as before?

People and corporations will not hold back purchases. Ours is a materialistic, spend-first-ask-questions-later culture. Critical to maintaining this mindset is that, for most Americans, the "war on terrorism" is still such an impersonal thing being fought by our government overseas and in the shadows. As tragic as 9/11 was, it took place in one American city on one far side of the country. Until attacks occur in small(er)-town America, I think the majority of Americans will continue to perceive the threat as being quite distant and will thus proceed with life as usual.

We won't learn if we're able to function like Israel until attacks occur all over our country, not just the major cities - unless, of course, there's a catastrophic attack, i.e. of a nuclear/chem/bio nature, that causes tremendous casualties.

Madison · Jun 25, 2003

picknclick · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from TM_Direct:

Iran is coming around on it's own (please W, leave it alone... it'll fix itself), the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is moving in the right direction, and the Middle East has gotten the message.

What crack pipe are you smoking? the same one the Iranian women are smoking seconds before they set themselves a blaze?????
Get real....These Middleast countries only understand one thing: A kick in the ass.....Iran would never be making these new and latest strides if we didn't have an airforce bass ( Saddam Hussein international airport) a hundred miles away....Think of it like tonights NBA draft: "Ladies and gentlemen, IRAN is now onthe clock with the next choice...."

...of course, I deleted the part right before that where david stern says, " with the 12th pick the NY Knicks have selected Frederic Weiss of France"

Like I said, it's taking care of itself.... by the rules of natural selection. The students will end up being martyrs, the country will completely move against the clerics, and the civil war will result in the Khatami-led groups taking over. Now, we might have to let Israel blow up a few nuclear reactors in the process, but we'll just call that collateral damage

TM_Direct · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from picknclick:

Like I said, it's taking care of itself.... by the rules of natural selection. The students will end up being martyrs, the country will completely move against the clerics, and the civil war will result in the Khatami-led groups taking over. Now, we might have to let Israel blow up a few nuclear reactors in the process, but we'll just call that collateral damage

yeah, yeah right, right......now , back to important stuff: who should the knicks take tonight?

picknclick · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from TM_Direct:

yeah, yeah right, right......now , back to important stuff: who should the knicks take tonight?

Big Country Reeves!!!

Either him or some other stiff. Please, anyone taller than Clarence Weatherspoon!!!

But seriously, they need trade to get a big man like Rasheed Wallace or the Candy man. Anything would help right now.

aphexcoil · Jun 25, 2003

I had a friend just get back from Italy. Apparently over there people are much more laid back -- people drink beers on the sidewalk while sitting on the bench after they buy it from a vending machine. In fact, a lot of European nations are very relaxed and yet they don't have significant social problems. They use the "honor system" extensively in Italy, letting you pick up a breakfast, eat it and then go up and pay for it buy just telling them what you had to eat.

What am I seeing over here in the United States? More police, more government, more crackdowns that invade on our civil liberties. The Constitution has become a token document that is used when needed and revised / ignored when needed for something else.

Politicians are sticking their hands in the cookie-jar while, with hypocrisy in full gear, vowing to crack down on criminals, etc.

The United States is burning itself out. Stupid policies are causing massive problems with people who fly on a regular basis. Why should I go to an airport to fly to a city that is 6 hours away by car if I have to get to the airport 3 hours early and deal with delays, etc? The security precautions are destroying what little hope the airlines ever had at becoming profitable.

When is it going to end? We really need to trim down or just acknowledge the fact that our (US) federal government is incapable of running such a large country effectively. The scales of economies has gotten much too large and now the system is getting clogged and old.

picknclick · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from aphexcoil:

I had a friend just get back from Italy. Apparently over there people are much more laid back -- people drink beers on the sidewalk while sitting on the bench after they buy it from a vending machine. In fact, a lot of European nations are very relaxed and yet they don't have significant social problems. They use the "honor system" extensively in Italy, letting you pick up a breakfast, eat it and then go up and pay for it buy just telling them what you had to eat.

What am I seeing over here in the United States? More police, more government, more crackdowns that invade on our civil liberties. The Constitution has become a token document that is used when needed and revised / ignored when needed for something else.

Politicians are sticking their hands in the cookie-jar while, with hypocrisy in full gear, vowing to crack down on criminals, etc.

The United States is burning itself out. Stupid policies are causing massive problems with people who fly on a regular basis. Why should I go to an airport to fly to a city that is 6 hours away by car if I have to get to the airport 3 hours early and deal with delays, etc? The security precautions are destroying what little hope the airlines ever had at becoming profitable.

When is it going to end? We really need to trim down or just acknowledge the fact that our (US) federal government is incapable of running such a large country effectively. The scales of economies has gotten much too large and now the system is getting clogged and old.

You know, it wasn't suppossed to last this long anyways aphie. We should have another constitutional convention... It can be held in the United Center... and brought to you with limited commercial interruptions by Exxon-Mobil

The truth is that, without a major social movement, the corporations have taken over the process and the country. We don't have real leaders anymore, just figureheads that spout useless drivel at every given opportunity. No genuine thought is given to problems, so they just fester and grow bigger as time passes (Social Security, Medicare, Welfare reform, Military spending, Election reform, Environmental regulation). Everything has gotten worse since the 70's and there are no real solutions even on the table. Each side is too worried that it'll be demonized by the other (see universal health care... no, no... we can't debate specifics, because then the pharmaceutical companies, doctors, HMOs, etc. will get mad and pull our funding!!! OH NO!!!).

And the only thing that we seem to agree on is war, but only when we're really mad.

AAAintheBeltway · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

The responses from people are good, but my focus is not necessarily on policy, but oh how America responds from a psychological perspective.

Will people hold back purchases because of the thought of the next war, will corporate America do the same?

I don't know if we are built to survive the costs of this long term war, which I don't think can easily be won when it comes to religious fanaticism.

How do people think Americana is going to deal with this?

Can we really learn to function like Israel, under the constant threat of war and reprisal and still get on with our lives as productively as before?

These are good questions. I find it significant that we really have not had any major terrorist incidents since 9/11, with the exception of the two snipers and they seem to have been lone wolf psychos. I have to conclude that the post 9/11 roundup of middle easterners who were here illegally, despite the NY Times wailing, took Al Queda sleeper cells out of play. Thank you, John Ashcroft.

I agree with aphie that the airport security is both heavy handed and ineffective. It is big government at its worst. Do something for the sake of doing it, but don't use even a shred of common sense, and make it as annoying and disagreeable as possible. Why didn't they just put the whole program under the IRS, since they have that routine down pat.

We still have major vulnerabilities. Our de facto open border policy is ludicrous. The govenment hassles legal citizens but turns a blind eye to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. Why does our government allow the Saudi's to continue to foment hate and divisiveness here through its massiv efunding of Islamic extremists? An American literally cannot bring a Bible into Sauid, you will be arrested and deported for having a religious service, yet we allow the worst sort of Islamic thugs to spew their venom here without limit? There are First Amendment issues, but we certainly can put limits on overseas funding.

I think if we did experience additional 9/11 scale attacks, there would be considerable public sentiment for ever harsher security measures, civil liberties be damned. There would likewise be huge pressure for taking out any foreiugn government seen as complicit. I really don't think people are in any mood to say we must try to negotiate or compromise with this evil.

trader556 · Jun 25, 2003

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

The responses from people are good, but my focus is not necessarily on policy, but oh how America responds from a psychological perspective.

Will people hold back purchases because of the thought of the next war, will corporate America do the same?

I don't know if we are built to survive the costs of this long term war, which I don't think can easily be won when it comes to religious fanaticism.

How do people think Americana is going to deal with this?

Can we really learn to function like Israel, under the constant threat of war and reprisal and still get on with our lives as productively as before?

People after any kind of conflict, seek closure. Something to put behind us and go on with our lives. A lot of the response from the public would depend on how the situation unfolds over Iraq. If it ends up being a lengthy occupation it may not bode well. I posted some info on the cost of war thread, and possibility of at least 5 years.

You have asked for no cut and pastes, but this relates directly to your question: "More Americans Call the Level of Casualties in Iraq âUnacceptableâ The number of Americans who say the United States is sustaining an "unacceptable" level of military casualties in Iraq has grown sharply, a trend that could signal limited patience for a long and violent occupation.

While 51 percent of Americans in a new ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll call the current level of U.S. casualties "acceptable," that's down from 66 percent in early April, when Baghdad fell with little organized resistance. And the number calling casualties "unacceptable" has jumped by 16 points, to 44 percent."

Will it get worst? Maybe. In the homeland it's all about perceptions. Depends on what the main stream TV and other media feeds the public. If all comes across as no big deal, then public thinks it's not.

Case in point: 6 British soldiers died recently. A news station can mention it as an incident where 6 coalition troops were hit and fatally wounded. Possibly 1-2 times a day and not during prime time.

OR it can be broadcasted as : another 6 of our children slaughtered in a brutal attack, by Iraqi guerilla warriors. Then show pictures of bloody bodies, horror expressions on their faces, add sounds of mortars all over the place, and keep on repeating every hour on the hour across all major stations.

Fact is 6 British soldiers died. And both descriptions above are "technically correct" Which one do you think will effect the public more and what way?

Optional, you pose good questions. Answers are not as easy. One would think that as long as the sense of closure is missing, then both Corps and public, would be on the hesitant side of spending.

hapaboy · Jun 26, 2003

Quote from trader556:

One would think that as long as the sense of closure is missing, then both Corps and public, would be on the hesitant side of spending.

I disagree. Things will go on as usual until the next attack, where there will be a pause whose length depends on the severity of the attack.

Americans are a lot of things, including a seemingly national trait that prohibits ANYTHING to deter us from spending our money.

As a nation we are very serious about exercising our right to pursue our happiness and fun.

There will not be a sense of closure for a very long, long time - if ever.