Pope pisses off Muslims

[hapaboy]

Quote from hapaboy:

Show me where I have stated that "all/most Muslims are very, very evil." If you would bother to exercise more of those vaunted research skills of yours, you would find that I have in fact defended Muslims and attacked the very kind of thinking you are accusing me of.

Quote from Dogballoon:

When you disagree with me that extremism is primarily rooted in socio-economics, you are implicitly saying Islam is the real cause. Bin Laden was rich. No violence exists in poor countries except where Islam is involved.

When you say it doesn't matter that Islam is decentralized, all Muslims from Egypt to Dubai to Urumqi should denounce a nun being slain, you are implicitly saying all Muslims are the same.

More bonehead assinine statements from little Doggy.

Your "implicitly" comments are mere prattle. You have chosen to ignore what has been said and instead use a sweeping generality to assume what I (and Nik) believe on this topic.

So, to put this in very simple terms so that it (possibly) filters to your cerebellum:

1)I do not believe ALL Muslims are the same.

2) Socio-economics have something to do with Islamic fanaticism. And, by the way, I know this will be a shock to you: Islam also has something to do with Islamic fanaticism. Much like the lack of Viagra has something to do with your ignorance.

Is that "implicit" enough for you, little Doggy?

And oh, how many Muslim clerics in the Middle East have denounced the Muslim cleric in Somalia who urged Muslims to murder the Pope? How many of them have denounced the murder of the Italian nun in Somalia?

 

[Dogballoon]

Quote from hapaboy:



1)I do not believe ALL Muslims are the same.

2) Socio-economics have something to do with Islamic fanaticism. And, by the way, I know this will be a shock to you: Islam also has something to do with Islamic fanaticism.

Good, now we're getting somewhere. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in that you may be less of a bonehead, perhaps not a bonehead at all, though I think I have a clear picture of the nature of Nik's opinions.

I am quite aware Islam has something to do with Islamic fanaticism.

My questions are now:

Why did you disagree with me about the poverty-extremism link?

Which Muslims in which countries should comment on the nun slaying and why?

Do you feel a similar commentary should have come from Western powers regarding the Haditha massacre? If not, why?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Let's follow the logic...

1. Islam also has something to do with Islamic fanaticism.

2. Guns also have something to do with gun violence.

3. Islam is the cause of Islamic fanaticism.

4. Guns are the cause of gun violence.


This is the absurdity of the right wing position in their hatred of Islam, given their love of guns.

They say guns don't create crime and violence, but rather criminals use guns in crime...the guns are only a tool, that if used in the right hands is safe....guns are not the cause of crime in their opinion.

By the same reasoning, Islam doesn't cause crime and violence or terrorism, but fanatics use Islam as a tool of violence and terrorism. Islamic leaders use Islam as a tool to brainwash their followers into acts of terrorism. Islam is not the cause, no more than guns are the cause of crime, right?

LOL!

The problem is fanaticism itself, fundamentalism and totalitarian thinking...not the tools they use to act on their fanaticism.

This is why the Pope is dead wrong in what he did, by focusing on Islam, rather than on the type of mind or person who abuses any religion to kill in the name of God.

God is not to blame, Islam is not to blame, human beings who preach violence are to blame.

Quote from hapaboy:

More bonehead assinine statements from little Doggy.

Your "implicitly" comments are mere prattle. You have chosen to ignore what has been said and instead use a sweeping generality to assume what I (and Nik) believe on this topic.

So, to put this in very simple terms so that it (possibly) filters to your cerebellum:

1)I do not believe ALL Muslims are the same.

2) Socio-economics have something to do with Islamic fanaticism. And, by the way, I know this will be a shock to you: Islam also has something to do with Islamic fanaticism. Much like the lack of Viagra has something to do with your ignorance.

Is that "implicit" enough for you, little Doggy?

And oh, how many Muslim clerics in the Middle East have denounced the Muslim cleric in Somalia who urged Muslims to murder the Pope? How many of them have denounced the murder of the Italian nun in Somalia?

 

[Johnnie T-Bond]

I'm not Catholic but I think the Pope got it right on radical Islam. Of the 60 or so Muslim sects only a few are the radical wackos. They are the world troublemakers and need to be destroyed like a cancer. It may come down to who has the most nukes. The US currently has 10,000 ... they have none. When we are pushed to the point of no return the US may have to begin using them. Until then, the madness may keep escalating. We may not have the long-term will or treasury to keep fighting them with conventional means.

 

[Pabst]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Let's follow the logic...

1. Islam also has something to do with Islamic fanaticism.

2. Guns also have something to do with gun violence.

3. Islam is the cause of Islamic fanaticism.

4. Guns are the cause of gun violence.


This is the absurdity of the right wing position in their hatred of Islam, given their love of guns.

They say guns don't create crime and violence, but rather criminals use guns in crime...the guns are only a tool, that if used in the right hands is safe....guns are not the cause of crime in their opinion.

By the same reasoning, Islam doesn't cause crime and violence or terrorism, but fanatics use Islam as a tool of violence and terrorism. Islamic leaders use Islam as a tool to brainwash their followers into acts of terrorism. Islam is not the cause, no more than guns are the cause of crime, right?

LOL!

The problem is fanaticism itself, fundamentalism and totalitarian thinking...not the tools they use to act on their fanaticism.

This is why the Pope is dead wrong in what he did, by focusing on Islam, rather than on the type of mind or person who abuses any religion to kill in the name of God.

God is not to blame, Islam is not to blame, human beings who preach violence are to blame.

Guns are to blame and Islam is to blame. If the world had neither we'd live in a better place.

I'll toss my guns in the sea if I can throw an Iman along for the ride.....

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from Dogballoon:

Good, now we're getting somewhere. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in that you may be less of a bonehead, perhaps not a bonehead at all, though I think I have a clear picture of the nature of Nik's opinions.

I am quite aware Islam has something to do with Islamic fanaticism.

My questions are now:

Why did you disagree with me about the poverty-extremism link?

This is what you said about the poverty-extremism link:

Quote from Dogballoon:

Never did I say that ALL terrorists come from poverty. I never will. But it's an extremely OBVIOUS fact that extremism finds ripe breeding ground in areas where there is high unemployment, low development, and where the middle class has little access to the political process.

And this is how I replied:

Quote from hapaboy:

Well, it's also an OBVIOUS fact that "the areas where there is high unemployment, low development, and where the middle class has little access to the political process" describes most of the world, yet, for some reason, it is in the Muslim countries with the above conditions which breed the most violent extremists.

It's pretty obvious where I disagree. You have pointed out socioeconomic factors THAT ARE NOT SPECIFIC ONLY TO the Middle Eastern Muslim countries, and these other non-Muslim countries with the same socioeconomic factors have not bred terrorists who wish to destroy the US and/or convert Americans to their religion. The majority of South America, Africa, and Asia are struggling with those conditions, but I don't see any Bolivians, Cameroonians, Thais or Indians whose desire it is to end their lives by piloting a hijacked 767 into a building packed with civilians. Do you? Although their conditions may have to do with capitalism not benefitting them, do you hear any of them saying, "Death to America! Buddha commands it!" or "Death to America! Vishnu commands it!" No you do not. Compare that now to what you hear from the Muslim world.

Why do you keep avoiding the fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers were middle-class and not wallowing in the socioeconomic factors you described? Why do you also keep avoiding the fact that many post 9/11 terrorists are from the same middle class or even upper class? Why do you also keep avoiding the fact that Osama bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda, was a millionaire? Don't any of these facts deter you at all from your assertion that poverty/unemployment/low development/little access to the political process are the primary causes of extremism in the Middle East? Why do you say that by making those statements, I am saying that "all Muslims are very, very evil"?

Which Muslims in which countries should comment on the nun slaying and why?

The Muslim heads in all countries where Islam is the dominant religion should condemn the actions of the Muslim cleric in Somalia who called for the Pope's murder which resulted in the subsequent murder of the nun.

Do you feel a similar commentary should have come from Western powers regarding the Haditha massacre? If not, why?

Good grief, man, I've already said this a couple of times: wait for the trial! Don't be like Mad Murtha and convict these troops in the court of public opinion before they have been tried in a court of law.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Putzkie, the neo-Nazi...

And I suppose your parents are to blame for your racist ignorant bigotry...

Quote from Pabst:

Guns are to blame and Islam is to blame. If the world had neither we'd live in a better place.

I'll toss my guns in the sea if I can throw an Iman along for the ride.....

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from Dogballoon:

What percentage of Muslims are extremists?

<b>Are you sure you really want to know?

Percentage of people expressing "a lot of confidence" or "some confidence" in bin Laden:

In the Palestinian territories: 71%
Morocco: 49%
Indonesia:58%
Saudi Arabia: 'Almost half'</b>


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9957-2003Jun3?language=printer


EDIT: More recent data, from last year (Includes the 2003 data, <i>in italics</i>, for comparison purposes):

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=792757>

Regarding the above Pew survey data:
Muslim Arabs compose the bulk of the world's terrorists, yet Pew
purposely picked the most Liberal & moderate of Muslim countries- and only one (Jordan) has an overwhelming Muslim Arab majority. The survey results from Lebanon are worthless, as the Lebanese population is divided about 70/30 between Muslims and Christians- and these groups live mostly segregated from each other. From the poll results, I think you can guess in which area of Lebanon this poll was conducted.

No survey results from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Syria- The places where the most Muslim Arabs (and Islamic terrorism supporters) can be found.

<b>Only 18% of Jordanians surveyed had absolutely no confidence in Al-Qaida. Both the Democrats & Republicans WISH they had as much support from the American people, as Bin Laden's terrorism has support from the Jordanian people!</b>

 

[Rearden Metal]

In case anyone has somehow missed my point;

<b>Terrorist Osama Bin Laden has higher approval ratings among his people (Muslim Arabs), than President Bush has among <i>his</i> people (Americans)!</b>

I challenge anyone to find a single opinion poll which disputes this claim.

 

[Pabst]

The scariest figures on that chart comes from Indonesia. A non ME nation that's often labled as a model of Islamic moderation by the media. Instead just another powder keg. The fact that an Islamic nation thousands of miles away from the ME can hold BinLaden in regard should trumpet to all the fallacy behind the red herring explanation of Israel and America being responsible for the simmering Muslim Street.

Quote from Rearden Metal:

<b>Are you sure you really want to know?

Percentage of people expressing "a lot of confidence" or "some confidence" in bin Laden:

In the Palestinian territories: 71%
Morocco: 49%
Indonesia:58%
Saudi Arabia: 'Almost half'</b>


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9957-2003Jun3?language=printer


EDIT: More recent data, from last year (Includes the 2003 data, <i>in italics</i>, for comparison purposes):

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=792757>

Regarding the above Pew survey data:
Muslim Arabs compose the bulk of the world's terrorists, yet Pew
purposely picked the most Liberal & moderate of Muslim countries- and only one (Jordan) has an overwhelming Muslim Arab majority. The survey results from Lebanon are worthless, as the Lebanese population is divided about 70/30 between Muslims and Christians- and these groups live mostly segregated from each other. From the poll results, I think you can guess in which area of Lebanon this poll was conducted.

No survey results from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Syria- The places where the most Muslim Arabs (and Islamic terrorism supporters) can be found.

<b>Only 18% of Jordanians surveyed had absolutely no confidence in Al-Qaida. Both the Democrats & Republicans WISH they had as much support from the American people, as Bin Laden's terrorism has support from the Jordanian people!</b>