Pope implicated in covering up sex abuse:

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from jem:
I am sure you know the simple response is that God allows free will.

Quote from Free Thinker:
you really should spend some time studying the book you follow. you don't seem to understand it very well.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for these pathetic, brainwashed souls to engage in anything approaching logical analysis. Their faith is received and they don't need to study anything, or explain anything, or even make sense.

So God allows free will, but he's omniscient at the same time, right? So he allows free will but the future is an open book to him. So he knows what's going to happen (because he's omniscient) and yet every individual has free will? But how can that be? If he knows what's going to happen, then the course of the future is already plotted and there is no free will.

What a stupid joke. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a much better fairly tale.

 

[Mav88]

Big Picture:

1) You ain't ever gonna get rid of religion or metaphysical beliefs, it is embedded in our software. Check out over 3000 years of written human history and the countless religons.

2) Most Christians have evolved to allow for people like me, and we can mostly co-exist... mostly. They used to kill us.

3) Consider that in a place with a lot of muslims, your life would be still in danger for expressing atheist views, especially if you offended their retarded belief in a bloodthirsty and pedophile prophet.

Therefore: As a nonbeliever be somewhat grateful that you live in a place where the majority of humans, in spite of their religion, believe in letting others have their own belief system along with a secular government.

 

[stu]

Quote from Mav88:

Big Picture:

1) You ain't ever gonna get rid of religion or metaphysical beliefs, it is embedded in our software. Check out over 3000 years of written human history and the countless religons.

2) Most Christians have evolved to allow for people like me, and we can mostly co-exist... mostly. They used to kill us.

3) Consider that in a place with a lot of muslims, your life would be still in danger for expressing atheist views, especially if you offended their retarded belief in a bloodthirsty and pedophile prophet.

Therefore: As a nonbeliever be somewhat grateful that you live in a place where the majority of humans, in spite of their religion, believe in letting others have their own belief system along with a secular government.

You didn't get to here because atheists were being grateful.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The catholic church is infested with sexual deviants. No surprise, it's a perfect place for a predator to find fresh meat. Anyone still contributing to the "church" needs their head examined.
Can't expect too much moral outcry from our law makers though. These are the guys that get standing ovations when found to have teenage prostitution rings running out of their apartments.
BTW, this has nothing to do with the existance of a Creator. Just a bunch of pervs preying on the young.

 

[Free Thinker]

Dismal news from Ireland
Category: Religion
Posted on: March 15, 2010 2:08 AM, by PZ Myers

It's more of the same; the deeper they dig into the Irish Catholic Church, the filthier it gets. The latest news is a revelation from the senior cleric in Ireland.

Cardinal Sean Brady, primate of all-Ireland, admitted he was present at meetings where two abused teenagers were made to sign vows of silence.

He was part of a cover-up. In a case of known sex-offender priest, Brady helped conceal the truth about this monster by compelling the victims to silence. And now he shows no guilt, saying "Frankly I don't believe that this is a resigning matter." Why? Because he was only following orders.

I've heard that excuse somewhere else, before.

 

[Free Thinker]

so what does gods represenative do when he gets caught raping alter boys?he claims the devil made me do it:

Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.
Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true - including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia."
He claimed that another example of satanic behaviour was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".



Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was "pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me."

 

[jem]

Quote from Blessed Atheist:

Just came across this on my referrers and wanted to see what was happening. Jem, you claim that I set up straw men and then knock them down. Actually I think the Bible sets up the men that I try to knock over. I don't need to set them up; they're already there. I'm not sure which ones you are referencing, but let's pick free will and the fall of man. I did address this but here goes a very short response.

God creates us fully as we are, remember no evolution allowed. Being Omnipotent and omniscient, he controls our complete formation. There are no outside factors here. Right? Oh yes, the devil! But God created him too, and being Omniscient, knows precisely what he will do. Correct? That is what omniscient means. So God has us just the way he wants us. Of course he does, because he's perfect, and for perfection to create a flawed creation, he would have to do it on purpose. By the definitions involved, there is no other way.

Anyway, he makes us in our totality and then demands we don't do the one thing that he KNOWS we are going to. Remember we do not yet know right from wrong, for we have not yet eaten the fruit of knowledge. And of course, we eat it. Just like he wanted us to. How can you create something that you know is going to do something and blame them for doing it. This is absurd!

Come on Jem, Anyone not blinded by years of brainwashing can see that this is a story invented by a tribe of bronze age desert wanderers trying to understand where they came from. And as a work of literature, it can be beautiful. But taken as inerrant truth, just like the Koran or the Book of Mormon, it becomes ugly and squalid. As my site tries it's hardest to prove, a literal interpretation of a bronze age work of fiction is less than useless. It's dangerous for society.

If you need to shove your own head up your butt, fine! Just don't demand that the rest of us do too. There's not much difference between you and the Moslems. It's just a slightly different butt.

Free thinker. Thanks for the support in the battle against superstition.

Blessed Atheist Bible Study @ http://blessedatheist.com/

If you are going to attribute an argument to your other side.... you should have footnotes or support showing this is a fair thing to do.

Otherwise you manifest yourself as a cheap shot artist.

Let me start --

you implicitly state the bible is wrong because it does not support evolution.... your quote:

"God creates us fully as we are, remember no evolution allowed. "

-- that statement is a strawman.

1. Show us where the bible says there is no evolution and

2. show me that the majority of Christians agree with your interpretation.... I will tell you right the majority of Christians do accept evolution.


Now that I have disabused you of what seems to be the major premise of your website... perhaps you will take it down or adjust it to avoid cheap shots?

 

[jem]

Quote from Free Thinker:

so what does gods represenative do when he gets caught raping alter boys?he claims the devil made me do it:

Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.
Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true - including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia."
He claimed that another example of satanic behaviour was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".



Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was "pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me."

I am not one who has ever attributed a criminals acts to the Devil. (although I reserve that right with respect to people like Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Nancy Pelosi) But, he is right, there are criminals in the priesthood and the church needs to do something about it soon. In my opinion.

 

[Blessed Atheist]

The Us is being inundated with young earth creationism at worst and a rampant type of old earth creationism at best.

You say -- I will tell you right the majority of Christians do accept evolution.

I say bull. Sure those who have a light touch of faith have little problem with it, but most of the hard core theists in the US throw it out. I have dozens of friends who swear it bunk. My entire family as an example, hate the very thought of evolution. I fight these people everyday. For Darwin's sake, we have elected officials who think the earth is only 6000 years old.

My site is against the literal interpretation of the bible. You know 6000 year old planet; flood killed the dinosaurs kind of thing. I have a creation museum 180 miles from my house dedicated to showing everyone that Adam and Eve lived with the dinosaurs. Whether you believe in evolution is irrelevant, many don't. And these are the people that my site counters. I don't care about people who can squeeze real science into their life. It's the ones who demand that the Bible is absolutely literal truth and the only truth out there.

It's your own side that brings up these arguments. Go to Answers in Genesis or the discovery institute and tell them that evolution exists. They'll call you a poor Christian. The Answer I get is if you throw out a single part of the Bible, you may as well toss the whole thing. Therefore by this count, not my count but theirs, Adam was created 6000 years ago. all the coal on earth was created during the great flood.

Do you not know about these people? You read a few paragraphs of my site while having no understanding of the people you claim as allies and say I throw up straw men. These are all arguments that have been brought up on my site or to my face. If you had bothered to read more than a few words you'd know. BTW I cover the fall of man intensely. You just read part of my summary of Genesis, one post out of 48 and think you know what I'm about. Please.

We just had three separate conferences in Bismarck ND, advertised in our library, Proclaiming that the Young Earth beliefs were the only truly Christian beliefs. So I ask you again, Where do you live?

The Blessed Atheist Bible Study @ http://blessedatheist.com/

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

The catholic church is infested with sexual deviants. No surprise, it's a perfect place for a predator to find fresh meat. Anyone still contributing to the "church" needs their head examined.
Can't expect too much moral outcry from our law makers though. These are the guys that get standing ovations when found to have teenage prostitution rings running out of their apartments.
BTW, this has nothing to do with the existance of a Creator. Just a bunch of pervs preying on the young.

You are right about the catholic church being infested with HOMOsexual deviants. Many pedophile homosexuals that do not want to come out of the closet and do not want to be scrutinized for not having a girlfriend/wife join the church so they can be near young boys and nobody questions why they do not have girlfriends/wives.

But to say that anyone contributing the the church needs their head examined is wrong. There are about 100 times more homosexual pedophiles in public schools having sex with children. Does that mean we should stop funding education?