Poor Fills on Firstrade

C

Con1991

I recently opened an account with Firstrade and began trading mostly option index spreads, for capital efficiency. I mostly aim for mid price on entry and exit, and while I have had a few NDX and SPX trades fills at mid price on entry, I have yet to be able to exit a single position using mid price. And this is over the course of several weeks now. Extremely frustrating and disappointing.

I am wondering, since Firstrade is a payment for order flow brokerage, I realize this can affect order execution. Does this perhaps explain my poor results thus far? Anecdotally, are option fills better on the like of Schwab and Fidelity, Tradestation etc.

Thanks for any input
 
If the option strike market is only from MMs, the midpoint is often their fair value. They will only trade with you if the index moves. Their systems look for an edge. Has nothing to do with PFOF.
 
If you enter an order at the mid-point, do you see it post on the CBOE? Are you orders going out at prices that can't be shown, like 3.125 when the Market was 3.00 x 3.25?

Con1991 said:
I read your answer in my previous post. No I did not ignore it. I'm struggling to understand how it is that no matter how many times I alter my limit price, my order on FT simply do not fill. There is more to it I'm sure. Especially since these positions are fluctuating in and out of profit.
More...
 
Robert Morse said:
If the option strike market is only from MMs, the midpoint is often their fair value. They will only trade with you if the index moves. Their systems look for an edge. Has nothing to do with PFOF.
More...
Thanks Robert. I realise that with ITM options the role of the market maker is particularly important. However in the case of one of my positions it is actually ATM. The butterfly spread I have open is the 18375/18400/18425 strikes. I opened this spread for a debit of 0.40 with one contract, so $40 in total. The mid price often moves as high as 15/16, yet no matter how many times I alter the limit price, it still never fills. Needless to say I'm not impressed with Firstrade so far.
 
Robert Morse said:
If you enter an order at the mid-point, do you see it post on the CBOE? Are you orders going out at prices that can't be shown, like 3.125 when the Market was 3.00 x 3.25?
More...
I'm not sure how to check orders on the CBOE, Robert. I wasn't aware of that. Liquidity shouldn't be an issue, as I'm trading mostly ATM butterflies at the moment.
 
I guess you need to ask them if they send your orders to the CBOE COB or to a broker in the crowd. We do not use floor brokers. They might.

Con1991 said:
Thanks Robert. I realise that with ITM options the role of the market maker is particularly important. However in the case of one of my positions it is actually ATM. The butterfly spread I have open is the 18375/18400/18425 strikes. I opened this spread for a debit of 0.40 with one contract, so $40 in total. The mid price often moves as high as 15/16, yet no matter how many times I alter the limit price, it still never fills. Needless to say I'm not impressed with Firstrade so far.
More...
 
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