What discussion Thunderdolt? All you do is keep pasting comments from websites and biblical passages, make illogical arguments and prove that you do not even understand the arguments put forth.....Ugh, now I'm wasting my time on this guy that we were supposed to have left behind a year and a half ago...........wow, still can't believe its been that long.
POLL: What is the World's Most Evil Religion?
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What discussion Thunderdolt? All you do is keep pasting comments from websites and biblical passages, make illogical arguments and prove that you do not even understand the arguments put forth.....Ugh, now I'm wasting my time on this guy that we were supposed to have left behind a year and a half ago...........wow, still can't believe its been that long.
Actually, more often it is very religious people who push their views, not atheists nor agnostics. And open-minded could just as well include the open-mindedness to realize that you may be wrong. God might not exist, or God might exist but not have done any of the things in the bible or dictated that we live as the humans who wrote the bible said to.
Your conclusion may be spurious, as there are more religious people than not, so it very be well that the majority of people tend push their views on to others...whether their belief system is religious or atheistic.
My guess is that if people adopted atheism in the same manner people adopt religion, the numbers would be the same. It has to do with human nature in my opinion and a lack of faith in the system of choice.
I am open minded, in as much as I can say I don't know with the absolute mathematical certainty that a closed system like mathematics can provide. I am not an absolute being, I am human and therefore fallible, and seek to achieve absolute help which in my mind is the nature of God. I can seek truth through the limited mind, or I can choose to surrender my mind to God who is absolute and ask Him to give me absolute knowledge. It depends on whether or not someone is seeking absolute knowledge, or relative knowledge. All knowledge in this world is relative, as it comes from relative understanding and relative perceptions, not from absolute understanding or absolute perceptions.
That is why I admit I practice faith in the belief system of my choosing.
I also don't have mathematical certainty about many things in life, yet it doesn't keep me from moving forward toward my individual goals.
The resident atheists are not honest enough to admit they do the exact same thing with their belief systems.
Come again?
Sonnet #66 by Shakespeare
Total of 535 characters, including only 26 letters and spaces.
Odds of getting a specific 5 letter word randomly -- 1 in over 14,000,000
Odds of getting just this Sonnet randomly? 1 in (27 to the 535 power). That's equivalent to 10^765 power. Number of seconds since the big bang -- 4.7304 x 10^17 ... There aren't enough plank constants of time available since the big bang to even scratch the surface of that one -- and that is just one of his shorter sonnets.
Sorry, but the monkey banging on a typewriter analogy for proof that anything can happen given enough time is horseshit in my opinion.
How is that possibly known?
LMAOOO.... you are so completely incapable of arguing
that you have to completely fabricate what im saying now?!??!
A perfect strawman by definition.
I in fact have NEVER said or asserted this:
"axeman: NO. God does not exist because I said so. "
You once again PROVE to us all that you are completely
incapable of READING. You continue to assert that
I claim god does not exist.
Im seriously starting to think you have a severe mental
handicap. Or your delusional since you continue to attack
things which I never said, and seem to read things which are
not even there.
Seek help... I mean really.
peace
axeman
that you have to completely fabricate what im saying now?!??!
A perfect strawman by definition.
I in fact have NEVER said or asserted this:
"axeman: NO. God does not exist because I said so. "
You once again PROVE to us all that you are completely
incapable of READING. You continue to assert that
I claim god does not exist.
Im seriously starting to think you have a severe mental
handicap. Or your delusional since you continue to attack
things which I never said, and seem to read things which are
not even there.
Seek help... I mean really.
peace
axeman
Actually, you did not realize your ATHEISM was fantasy,.
you concluded that. There is a big difference between a conclusion of the mind, and reality independent of human thought. You don't have objective certainty or proof that your faith was not real. You simply made a choice.
See how fricken stupid your lame argument is??
When you CANT prove unbelievable supernatural claims
outside of your own mind then it IS fantasy.
Nothing more than a figment of your imagination.
There is a big difference between a conclusion of the mind, and reality independent of human thought.
NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY SHIT COMING FROM YOU! LMAOOO!!
Isnt this EXACTLY what I have been asking of you???
**INDEPENDENT** verification of a reality OUTSIDE of just your head??!?!
What a fricken hypocrite!! Can you say double standard???
As I have pointed out many times, you have NEVER provided
a shred of evidence that your FANTASY of god/faith exists
OUTSIDE of your mind.
But you continue to SPEW forth these LAME arguments
as if you know for certain that you are right.
Give it up 777, you have consistently FAILED to provide
any proof for your childhood fantasies.
In fact.... I have already PROVED just how flawed your
silly faith based system is in the passed.
Let me remind you.
I can find multiple people who have directly contradictory
knowledge to YOURS via the use of faith.
In fact...I FAITH right now that you are absolutely wrong.
This proves just how inconsistent your voo doo belief system
is and therefore proves how useless it is.
You have NEVER addressed this issue, except to take the
POMPOUS position that ONLY YOUR FAITH is true, and any
faith which contradicts yours must be false.
Of course, you NEVER provide a reason WHY this is the case
and why we should believe such nonsense.
If a madman tells me he hears voices from god that tell
him to shoot people, using your logic, his direct perceptions
must be accepted as true.
He is NOT simply a mentally ill FU**, he is using FAITH,
and the voices he hears MUST be true since he directly
experienced them.
Problem is, his internal voices are not testable, falsifiable
or verifiable....and here is the KEY part....*** JUST LIKE YOURS!!! ***
I have no way to tell the difference between this
SICKO MENTAL patient and YOU!
As far as im concerned, if you really think you have these
magical powers which allow ONLY YOU to communicate with
a mythical creator of the WHOLE universe, then I can
only conclude you have serious mental issues
In other words...Im wasting my time arguing with a mental patient
No wonder its always so easy to swat down your silly arguments.
You are mentally not able to defend yourself.
Oh man... now I feel bad
peace
axeman
you concluded that. There is a big difference between a conclusion of the mind, and reality independent of human thought. You don't have objective certainty or proof that your faith was not real. You simply made a choice.
See how fricken stupid your lame argument is??
When you CANT prove unbelievable supernatural claims
outside of your own mind then it IS fantasy.
Nothing more than a figment of your imagination.
There is a big difference between a conclusion of the mind, and reality independent of human thought.
NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY SHIT COMING FROM YOU! LMAOOO!!
Isnt this EXACTLY what I have been asking of you???
**INDEPENDENT** verification of a reality OUTSIDE of just your head??!?!
What a fricken hypocrite!! Can you say double standard???
As I have pointed out many times, you have NEVER provided
a shred of evidence that your FANTASY of god/faith exists
OUTSIDE of your mind.
But you continue to SPEW forth these LAME arguments
as if you know for certain that you are right.
Give it up 777, you have consistently FAILED to provide
any proof for your childhood fantasies.
In fact.... I have already PROVED just how flawed your
silly faith based system is in the passed.
Let me remind you.
I can find multiple people who have directly contradictory
knowledge to YOURS via the use of faith.
In fact...I FAITH right now that you are absolutely wrong.
This proves just how inconsistent your voo doo belief system
is and therefore proves how useless it is.
You have NEVER addressed this issue, except to take the
POMPOUS position that ONLY YOUR FAITH is true, and any
faith which contradicts yours must be false.
Of course, you NEVER provide a reason WHY this is the case
and why we should believe such nonsense.
If a madman tells me he hears voices from god that tell
him to shoot people, using your logic, his direct perceptions
must be accepted as true.
He is NOT simply a mentally ill FU**, he is using FAITH,
and the voices he hears MUST be true since he directly
experienced them.
Problem is, his internal voices are not testable, falsifiable
or verifiable....and here is the KEY part....*** JUST LIKE YOURS!!! ***
I have no way to tell the difference between this
SICKO MENTAL patient and YOU!
As far as im concerned, if you really think you have these
magical powers which allow ONLY YOU to communicate with
a mythical creator of the WHOLE universe, then I can
only conclude you have serious mental issues
In other words...Im wasting my time arguing with a mental patient
No wonder its always so easy to swat down your silly arguments.
You are mentally not able to defend yourself.
Oh man... now I feel bad
peace
axeman
Quote from axeman:
Actually, you did not realize your ATHEISM was fantasy,.
you concluded that. There is a big difference between a conclusion of the mind, and reality independent of human thought. You don't have objective certainty or proof that your faith was not real. You simply made a choice.
See how fricken stupid your lame argument is??
Abusive language, hence ad hominem.
When you CANT prove unbelievable supernatural claims
outside of your own mind then it IS fantasy.
Nothing more than a figment of your imagination.
You cannot prove anyone's experience is imagination. You cannot even prove that you are not dreaming this very moment, and that this discussion isn't a figment of your imagination. You have no absolute point of reference, hence all realizations are relative to an assumption that is not absolute, and hence may be untrue. That which is true is absolutely true, not relatively true.
NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY SHIT COMING FROM YOU! LOOM!!
Insincere comments don't deserve response.
Isnt this EXACTLY what I have been asking of you???
**INDEPENDENT** verification of a reality OUTSIDE of just your head??!?!
What a fricken hypocrite!! Can you say double standard???
You have not been asking anything, you have been stating your opinion of what reality is, and then passing judgment on what is reality for others. You have not provided proof of ultimate reality of an absolute nature. When you can prove that you are not dreaming right now, that you are not imagining this entire process, they you can judge reality for others.
The concept of "proof" you are suggesting is relativistic and not absolute.
As I have pointed out many times, you have NEVER provided
a shred of evidence that your FANTASY of god/faith exists
OUTSIDE of your mind.
You claim someone else's reality fantasy, but you can provide no proof that your own reality is not a fantasy.
Prove that your perspective is of absolute reality first, otherwise you are just offering up opinion and faith.
But you continue to SPEW forth these LAME arguments
as if you know for certain that you are right.
Show me where I have claimed certainty. I claim to practice faith. It is you who practice certainty on the basis of something which is not certain. Is that reasonable?
Give it up 777, you have consistently FAILED to provide
any proof for your childhood fantasies.
Prove that you love another human being. Prove inner intent. Impossible, as you could be acting. Yet inner intent exists, as does love. We all know that, we just cannot prove it to anyone else. Inability to prove it to another person doesn't make it false.
In fact.... I have already PROVED just how flawed your
silly faith based system is in the passed.
No, you have proved you think you are certain, and you think you have proved something, but in fact you have not.
I can find multiple people who have directly contradictory
knowledge to YOURS via the use of faith.
First, you cannot prove that the practice of faith is the same as my practice of faith.
Secondly, the perceptions and experiences of others who have different experiences do not in themselves constitute a proof that contradictory perceptions and experiences are false. This is false reasoning.
In fact...I FAITH right now that you are absolutely wrong.
I don't doubt you do. You practice your atheism with full faith and confidence.
This proves just how inconsistent your voo doo belief system
is and therefore proves how useless it is.
You have proved nothing beyond having a faith in a different concept of what ultimate reality is.
You have NEVER addressed this issue, except to take the
POMPOUS position that ONLY YOUR FAITH is true, and any
faith which contradicts yours must be false.
False. I have never stated my faith is the only faith. What I have stated is that there can be only one faith in Absolute God. How it is practiced may differ according to one's understanding, but there is only one Supreme God, not two. Faith in Supreme God is a true faith, faith in less than supreme God is a false faith.
Of course, you NEVER provide a reason WHY this is the case
and why we should believe such nonsense.
Those who seek absolute knowledge, absolute happiness, perfect love, everlasting life would seek the source of those experiences. The source of those experiences is God.
People are free to seek whatever they like. If they seek limitations, they are free. If they seek absolute experineces, they seek that end.
If a madman tells me he hears voices from god that tell
him to shoot people, using your logic, his direct perceptions
must be accepted as true.
Who can say? I can doubt his experiences, but I have no certainty that what he says is false. Just as if someone says they see the color red where I see the color blue, who is to say what the real color is, and how it should be seen?
He is NOT simply a mentally ill FU**, he is using FAITH,
and the voices he hears MUST be true since he directly
experienced them.
He is labled by society as mentally ill according to the norms of the society. In the same way society labels religious belief as real and sane. The field of mental health has not concluded that faith in God is an illusion, faith is accepted as a part of human nauture and a means of knowing.
Problem is, his internal voices are not testable, falsifiable
or verifiable....and here is the KEY part....*** JUST LIKE YOURS!!! ***
No, they are not testable, only his actions are. If his actions are not within the realm of societal norms, he suffers the fate of his actions in society if they are harmful to others.
I have no way to tell the difference between this
SICKO MENTAL patient and YOU!
Then you have no way of observing behavior. Mental health is determined by behavior by mental health professionals, and they can determine if someone is sane or not on that basis. No one who is high functioning, yet at the same time has faith in God is deemed mentally ill by mental health professionals.
As far as im concerned, if you really think you have these
magical powers which allow ONLY YOU to communicate with
a mythical creator of the WHOLE universe, then I can
only conclude you have serious mental issues
As far as you are concerned is an opinion, nothing more. Fact is that I have never claimed to have magical powers. Prove that I said that. You can't, because I didn't say that.
In addition, I have never said that anyone cannot practice faith in Supreme God. Anone can practice faith in God. The ability is inherint within all human beings.
In other words...Im wasting my time arguing with a mental patient
Ad hominem, poisoning the well fallacy.
No wonder its always so easy to swat down your silly arguments.
You are mentally not able to defend yourself.
Oh man... now I feel bad
More ad hominem, verbal abuse, and drawing conclusions without proof.
For those who are reading this thread, can you see the tactics used by axeman here?
Can you understand why someone would behave so?
My belief is that because when someone is unable to get their way, or win an argument properly, they behave like a child and throw a tantrum.
axeman is trowing a tantrum, because of the innability to behave in an adult manner. This behavior is common among the failed theists I have encountered in my life.
Normally, the kind of name calling and assumptive conclusons without evidence I have seen from axeman are common to teenagers. They argue from emotion and feeling, and are unable to maintain composure when things don't go their way. I am sure others have seen this type of behavior before. Normally it concludes with slamming of doors and sulking, or sour grapes mentality.
Eventually axeman will claim he is "above" the discussion, claim not to have time, slam the door, and/or place someone on ignore in a very public display of emotion.
At least that has been his M.O. in the past, and I see no change in maturity or behavior.
Anger management
Often when one such as axeman loses a debate he resorts to name calling. When you can't successfully argue the point of the message you simply attack the messenger. LOL
You failed to clearly debate the issue. No wonder YOU hide behind the redefining of words so that you don't have to clearly argue the opposing objections to your position. You claim to be a soft atheist but yet you have not offered an intelligent alternative to argument of origins. You have chosen to rather ignore that side of the discussion simply because you do not want to examine the alternative arguments. It is easy to just say that a counter argument is false or silly and to simply ignore it. Thats not having an open mind. We can only have a good discussion when BOTH parties have an opened mind. I am clearly open to examining contrary evidence to my belief system. Are you? So far you have not demonstrated that. You still have yet to reply to my response to YOUR ridiculous claims and re-interpretation of Scripture.
ARogueTrader was right about your childish behavior.
Often when one such as axeman loses a debate he resorts to name calling. When you can't successfully argue the point of the message you simply attack the messenger. LOL
You failed to clearly debate the issue. No wonder YOU hide behind the redefining of words so that you don't have to clearly argue the opposing objections to your position. You claim to be a soft atheist but yet you have not offered an intelligent alternative to argument of origins. You have chosen to rather ignore that side of the discussion simply because you do not want to examine the alternative arguments. It is easy to just say that a counter argument is false or silly and to simply ignore it. Thats not having an open mind. We can only have a good discussion when BOTH parties have an opened mind. I am clearly open to examining contrary evidence to my belief system. Are you? So far you have not demonstrated that. You still have yet to reply to my response to YOUR ridiculous claims and re-interpretation of Scripture.
ARogueTrader was right about your childish behavior.