POLL: What is the World's Most Evil Religion?

Are these NOT your words?


d) These are intelligent people with an evolutionary mechanism
built-in to prevent them from acknowledging their own final death
without an afterlife, which prevents extreme depression
(Yes, this is a real hypothesis I have researched )


You hint around the fact that you have researched but yet you give no evidence of this research....Hmmmmmm.

You DID elude to the fact that you believe in some form of "evolution" with your above statement.

YOU are either illiterate or a morron.

You dance around the issues and continue to set up straw men.
You demand an answere to your ridiculous questions but yet you will not respond to a simple question.

.......the fossil record?








Quote from axeman:


He attempted to switch the subject to evolution, which this
discussion is not about. This is a typical tactic for a theist
who wishes to run from his weak position and mask it somehow.

I do not see how you can come to this conclusion. The theory of evolution is as much to do with religious belief in origins as an atheistic view of no God. atheism is a religion as much as belief in evolution is a religion.

I don't have to answer any of his irrelevant questions.

But yet you insist that he answer your irrelevant questions.
.....Hmmmmm LOL.

If I cant explain why the universe is here, this IN NO WAY
lends ANY credibility to his weak position.

Says who? You ofcourse the great almighty axeman speaks.
shhhh. shut up and listen the great oracle speaks. LOL.

without truth there is no peace

CONTRARIAN
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Quote from CONTRARIAN:

Are these NOT your words?


d) These are intelligent people with an evolutionary mechanism
built-in to prevent them from acknowledging their own final death
without an afterlife, which prevents extreme depression
(Yes, this is a real hypothesis I have researched )


You hint around the fact that you have researched but yet you give no evidence of this research....Hmmmmmm.

You DID elude to the fact that you believe in some form of "evolution" with your above statement.

YOU are either illiterate or a morron.

You dance around the issues and continue to set up straw men.
You demand an answere to your ridiculous questions but yet you will not respond to a simple question.

.......the fossil record?
More...

You will find that what axeman doesn't know he makes up as he goes along. A clue is when he starts setting up his straw men and shouting in many posts in quick succession and re-stating his same points over and over, an important clue he is over his head, he knows or suspects you're right and he is trying to hang on. Take it from me, i have experienced his "logic" :)

Axeman's EGO will not permit a concession or even the smallest loss on any point no matter how trivial. He will never "allow" this to happen. Haven't you noticed that he is "right" on every point on every topic? He will never concede no matter how right you may be, no matter how much evidence you muster, no matter how logical your arguments.

You are wasting your time. Just sit back and watch with amusement like I do these days.

Again, just experience taking here. :)
 
Quote from LongShot:



You will find that what axeman doesn't know he makes up as he goes along. A clue is when he starts setting up his straw men and shouting in many posts in quick succession and re-stating his same points over and over, an important clue he is over his head, he knows or suspects you're right and he is trying to hang on. Take it from me, i have experienced his "logic" :)

Axeman's EGO will not permit a concession or even the smallest loss on any point no matter how trivial. He will never "allow" this to happen. Haven't you noticed that he is "right" on every point on every topic? He will never concede no matter how right you may be, no matter how much evidence you muster, no matter how logical your arguments.

You are wasting your time. Just sit back and watch with amusement like I do these days.

Again, just experience taking here. :)
More...

You are probably right. how sad. this could have been a great thread.
 
Are these NOT your words?
d) These are intelligent people with an evolutionary mechanism
built-in to prevent them from acknowledging their own final death
without an afterlife, which prevents extreme depression
(Yes, this is a real hypothesis I have researched )


Would you care to explain what this has to do with anything at all?? I was addressing darkhorses fallacious argument which
only allowed two choices, and I provided several more example
possibilities as proof of more choices.

You hint around the fact that you have researched but yet you give no evidence of this research....Hmmmmmm.
"You DID elude to the fact that you believe in some form of "evolution" with your above statement."

Thats because im not asserting this is true! Wow your clueless.
Im simply pointing out the EXISTENCE of alternative theories.
I never asserted this evolutionary god belief theory is true, or
that I even believe in it. Talk about strawmen.
Can you say cluuuueeeeless. Learn to read buddy.



You DID elude to the fact that you believe in some form of "evolution" with your above statement.


I did no such thing. You simply lack reading comprehension skills. LOL. :D
I provided an alternative example for darkhorse which
contained an evolutionary hypothesis for god belief.
This is NO WAY constitutes me asserting the evolution
is true, or that I even BELIEVE in the hypothesis.





"YOU are either illiterate or a morron."

Apprently you are the illiterate moron, since you cant tell
the difference between me proposing alternative possibilities
and me ASSERTING that evolution is true :D



"You dance around the issues and continue to set up straw men."

An empty assertion. POINT OUT the strawman, instead of
simply claiming one exists.


"You demand an answere to your ridiculous questions but yet you will not respond to a simple question."

Im not the one asserting grand claims such as biblical truth.
I have every right to question such nonsense.
Point out what I have asserted and THEN you can ask me questions.
Otherwise, this is nothing more than a complete DODGE to avoid
answering the questions which point out the GLARING errors
in biblical texts. Nice try.


"I do not see how you can come to this conclusion. The theory of evolution is as much to do with religious belief in origins as an atheistic view of no God. atheism is a religion as much as belief in evolution is a religion."

Atheism is a religion????!?! Wow.... you are so clueless that you
dont even know that atheism is the LACK OF RELIGIOUS belief.
Are you truly THAT ignorant of what atheism is???
If you dont even understand what it is, how could you possibly
argue against it?



AXE:"I don't have to answer any of his irrelevant questions.
CONTRARIAN:"But yet you insist that he answer your irrelevant questions.
.....Hmmmmm LOL."

Well DUH... **HE** is the one asserting something, therefore
the burden of proof is on HIM.
Its amazing that you are ciompletely unaware of this simple concept.




AXE: If I cant explain why the universe is here, this IN NO WAY
lends ANY credibility to his weak position.

CONT: Says who? You ofcourse the great almighty axeman speaks.
shhhh. shut up and listen the great oracle speaks. LOL.



Says who?? Are you really this completely ignorant???
I even gave you a simple example which shows why this is not the case.

Helloooo...the lack of an explaination for one thing ** IS NOT **
equivalent to proof for someone else hypothesis.
Could this BE anymore obvious?? I even gave you a simple
example and apprently you could not even grasp that. LMAO :D

If I ask person A, how did the universe come into being, and he answers: The universe exploded out of CONTRARIANS ass.

AND THEN... I ask person B, how did the universe come into being,
and person B responds: I DONT KNOW.

Does this somehow make persons A hypothesis any more true?

LMAOOOOOOOO.... DUH... of course it doesnt! But you seem
to think it does. Amazing.... must be some kind of tumor or something :D


Well.... you have proven to us that you dont even understand
simple concepts like the burden of proof, or what even
constitutes proof. Its no wonder you believe in such nonsense. :D

Now put up, or shut up. Defend your silly biblical position
or go away. Attempting to claim that im asserting things
which I am in fact NOT, and then demanding that I answer
questions for things which I did NOT assert, is an obvious
foolish game played by silly theists, to avoid answering
any questions regarding their grand empty assertions.


Have a nice day :D



peace

axeman



If person A hypothesis that the universe exploded out of
CONTRARIANS ASS, and then person
 
Longshot is the ONLY ET member dense enough to be
on my ignore list, and you had to go and quote him
so I could read the idiotic drivel he wrote.
Thanks for nothing.

Its hilarious to see him make claims which describe himself so perfectly.

When caught in an OBVIOUS contradiction, longshot refuses
to concede at any cost, no matter how obviously wrong he is.

Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

Another ET member explained this behavior beautiful
and I have included his post in my signature. :D
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=341724#post341724

he knows or suspects you're right and he is trying to hang on.

Now that is truly laughable :p

CONTRARIAN has made so many errors so far, its not even close.
He already proved to us he doesnt know what atheism is.

Atheism is a religion?? LMAOOO.... its BY DEFINITION the lack
of religion. Do I even need to debate this? What a joke.

Now go away Longshot. You no longer amuse me.
You have been so utterly destroyed in debates, and that
makes it so obvious WHY you have now been reduced
to nothing more than my personal stalker on ET! LMAO!!! :D


How truly pathetic.

Keep following me around with your moronic posts, and prove
to everyone that you are an ET stalker with a chip on his shoulder
from multiple humiliating defeats :D What a sore loser.


peace

axeman



Quote from CONTRARIAN:



You are probably right. how sad. this could have been a great thread.
More...


You will find that what axeman doesn't know he makes up as he goes along. A clue is when he starts setting up his straw men and shouting in many posts in quick succession and re-stating his same points over and over, an important clue he is over his head, he knows or suspects you're right and he is trying to hang on. Take it from me, i have experienced his "logic"

Axeman's EGO will not permit a concession or even the smallest loss on any point no matter how trivial. He will never "allow" this to happen. Haven't you noticed that he is "right" on every point on every topic? He will never concede no matter how right you may be, no matter how much evidence you muster, no matter how logical your arguments.

You are wasting your time. Just sit back and watch with amusement like I do these days.

Again, just experience taking here.
 
Quote from darkhorse:





what i find most amusing about these debates is not the disagreement- intelligent people have the right to disagree and do so all the time.

the funny part is how so many atheists on this board assume that theists are intellectually dishonest and then strain their arms patting themselves on the back for pointing it out.

think about it: to say "there are hundreds of contradictions, you must be blind not to see them" is to assume the theist is either stupid, unable to conduct even a cursory rational assessment of his beliefs, or unwilling to even consider the possiblity of an alternative argument.

the ridiculous smugness with which such charges are implied is a bit like a mosquito floating down the river on his back with a hardon yelling "raise the drawbridge!"

i think it's ironic that the assumption of intellectual dishonesty actually stems from intellectual dishonesty on the part of those who criticize. i mean after all, it doesn't take a whole lot of logic to recognize there is a third possibility:

Hmmm, it appears to me the bible is full of holes, yet there are intelligent people who believe in it who are also capable of open mindedness and rational argument. how can this be? either

a) all those seemingly intelligent people are really quite stupid or "brainwashed"

or

b) perhaps, just perhaps, there are stronger responses to my criticisms that i haven't considered. am i only scratching the surface here? maybe i should do some more reading and find out.

If you think you won your argument because you wrestled with a strawman, you deserve little respect. If you brag to others about winning your argument with a strawman, you deserve even less respect. A real desire for understanding will translate into a desire to go up against the best the other side has to offer. If I'm going to seek out challenges to my theism, I'll look to hear what guys like Bertrand Russell have to say, not posters on a message board who wouldn't know espistemology if it smacked them on the face.

Going back to the contradictions, obviously a message board does not provide the space nor the attention span to provide a real answer. But consider a few things:

As I said before, no one gets a free ride on the metaphysics train. There is no complete belief system that is without tension in certain areas which could be construed as contradiction rightly or wrongly on the part of the critic. None. Agnosticism does not count either, because permanent agnositicism is little more than acceptance of ignorance. (and Yet I don't know any agnostics who ACT as if they are ignorant. They all seem to operate on the basis of moral codes and in support of virtues that are supposed to mean something, even if they have not a whit why.)

Balance can also be misconstrued as contradiction by a sloppy mind. A random walk professor corners a trader and says "Hey! I was reading one of your trading books and it said that traders have to be willing to take risk and avoid risk at the same time. How does that make sense? Isn't the need to embrace risk and shun risk simultaneously a contradiction?" The trader looks puzzled and says "umm, no, you actually just don't understand the deeper point..." Random walk professor waves him off and says "Ha! I knew you would try to come back with some mumbo jumbo- face it, the idea of 'trading' is full of holes..."

Reality is complex and any explanation that sought to explain such without mystery and tension would be inadequate. The need for balance between opposite but vital concepts creates tension in itself. In some sense a complex truth is like a molecule. Consider water: two hydrogen molecules, one oxygen. Without the proper balance, you don't have water. In the same sense, certain truths cannot be understood independent from their juxtaposition and adjacence to other key truths. Certain principles look unbalanced when they are presented without support of other principles intrinsic to correct understanding. A belief system without tension would be about as illuminating as a Dick and Jane primer.

There is no unassailable position from which to throw down criticism without exposing your own beliefs to much criticism in return. Going back to the poll I posted on how people validate their morality- as best I know only specul8r answered so far. Anyone else care to step up and be intellectually honest- and expose themselves to serious flaws intrinsic to their line of reasoning? Those who think theism is 'silly' don't recognize that it is perhaps more 'silly' to hold to beliefs that are internally contradictory when it comes to morality and virtue.

A negative position is not an actual stance, and everyone has an actual stance underneath the posturing whether they recognize it or not. It's easy to lob bombs at anything. It's much harder to actually articulate what you believe personally, and to explain your rationale and reasoning for such.

Reaction to apparent contradiction is usually determined by higher order beliefs- which may in themselves be justified or not justified at all. Scientists come across apparent contradictions all the time in their work, many of which have not yet been solved. Quantum physics is crawling with 'em. So do they assume quantum physics is dumb and anyone who believes it is stupid? No- they move forward on the logical assumption that the contradictions represent flaws in their reasoning as it currently stands, and they seek to expand their knowledge to resolve the apparent contradiction. They don't throw out quantum physics, they recognize that the flaw is in their current thinking process and they seek to correct their understanding. Why do they do this? Because they have a higher level belief that the laws of the universe are ultimately logical, ordered and discernible- inherently infallible if you would. Is this belief any less steeped in mystery than a belief that a Christian would have in regards to scripture? Scientists have many rational arguments for their beliefs- so do intelligent Christians. The idea that the universe is ultimately rational, logical and ordered cannot be found within science itself- it is essentially a metaphysical belief. The idea that knowledge is accessible, reliable and valid is a metaphysical proposition as well. How can the scientific method validate the validity of the scientific method? It can't.

If a believe in science supports any philosophical notions, one of them should be that there is an objective standard we can move toward. I believe in the usefulness and efficacy and value of science, but I also don't believe that's where the buck stops. For those of you guys who do think it stops there, may I politely suggest you are showing your naivete because it can't stop there- science makes no claim on epistemology or metaphysics by definition, and no thinking person is without some realized application of both.

Last point before I go: winning an argument with a neophyte in and of itself really doesn't prove anything, because the truth of the matter in question is independent of the quality of debate. It's possible to hold a correct position for the wrong reasons. It's possible to be right and still lose. And it's possible to completely thrash your opponent and still be wrong.

I don't consider those who disagree with me to be lightweights by default, or intellectually dishonest by default- (though I am consistently surprised by the intellectual dishonesty I see in some). To assume the same of myself- or of the theistic position in general- is incredibly naive and shows both undue pride and copious ignorance.

Read some real books, put aside the soundbite thinking. Disagreement is fine and good, just please: step up the quality of your game.
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Now see, that is a post! Regardless of whether I hold the same beliefs as Darkhorse, the guy is one sharp cat and I can respect his ability to intellectually debate the other side of the coin...

You other bubbleheads on this thread should take note!
 
Quote from Specul8r:



Now see, that is a post! Regardless of whether I hold the same beliefs as Darkhorse, the guy is one sharp cat and I can respect his ability to intellectually debate the other side of the coin...

You other bubbleheads on this thread should take note!
More...
You'd do well in an ass-kissing contest.

Big words and big paragraphs don't mean anything. All that matters is that when you say something, you make people think.

darkhorse's posts are verbose sophistry.
 
Quote from Shrewd Dude:


You'd do well in an ass-kissing contest.

Big words and big paragraphs don't mean anything. All that matters is that when you say something, you make people think.

darkhorse's posts are verbose sophistry.
More...

Well that guy makes me think, even know I am not on his "side" with the subject matter, hence the post...
 
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