POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq

[rs7]

Quote from daniel_m:


well candle, this post has finally confirmed for me that you are first class cockroach. with americans like you, who the hell needs enemies. personally, if the situation arose, i'd be glad to legally place a bullet into your forehead.

Wow Dan, a little harsh today, no?

Is Candle an American?

I have been (rightly) criticized for rising to the bait of Max401. Here, Dan, it seems like you are rising to some pretty outrageous baiting as well. I know little of Candle. Other than he has made some very sensible observations (not necessarily on these matters) and has posted some really impressive stuff, assuming they were his words, which I trust they were. (the letter from Castro comes to mind...a great piece that I am pretty sure came from Candle....).

And then there is you Dan. Just possibly the brightest guy on all of ET. (maybe a little young with some maturing left to follow, most assuredly). But you sometimes even put even my unreasonable, temper twisted responses to shame. A bullet in the head? Come on!

My take on Candle, which could be completely off base, is that he went form one extreme to another in his political beliefs (at least that is what my somewhat addled brain seems to recall). If this is the case, well you know how recent "converts" to new ideologies tend to be the most radical. I am sure that when Candle's new found enthusiasm (if this is the case) dissipates, as it surely will, more reasonable and balanced thinking will replace his temporary fanaticism.

Global Islam? Come on. This can't be the real aspiration of any right thinking American (assuming Candle is). Because it is contrary to the beliefs he himself seems to endorse. And this is not specific to Islam, obviously. It is contrary to any belief in freedom and tolerance and reason. Which are principals I believe Candle really does hold dear.

Candle seems to want things that are (to him) wrong to be corrected over time. Yeah, he has valid points that Bush and Co. have gone over the edge in their quest for un-needed conflict. But to seriously propose "global Islam" as a solution? I am certain he is not serious. (Hope so anyway).

Candle is perhaps guilty of overstating his case. I doubt seriously that he intended to be taken literally. If he did, a bullet would not help. De-programming would be more the ticket. And if he is just trying to be provocative, well he has a great audience....where better to be as outrageous as possible than here? Especially with our pal TF to cheer him on. And I KNOW that TF is not really that unreasonable. TF uses exaggeration to make his points like we all do. (not to mention an unreasonable amount of cutting and pasting, but that is a whole other issue, and personal beef of mine which I have expressed too many times). My only real beef with TF is that he continually uses examples from the past that are totally irrelevant to today's world as far as Islamic "tolerance". Leaches and bloodletting had their day. Witch hunts had their day. Flat earth theory had it's time. So did the great societies of Islam. Today? Where are the peaceful proponents of Islam? Here we go again!

Either way, I find it virtually impossible to accept that Candle is attempting to be taken literally. Guy seems too bright. As do you. And yet look at some of your comments. I KNOW you don't want to kill anyone for expressing a belief (which, in this case, I don't believe to be his real belief). So, by making your statement, it seems obvious to me that neither of you truly meant what you said. Both of you are guilty of exaggeration and nothing more.

Peace,
rs7

 

[candletrader]

My take on Candle, which could be completely off base, is that he went form one extreme to another in his political beliefs (at least that is what my somewhat addled brain seems to recall). If this is the case, well you know how recent "converts" to new ideologies tend to be the most radical. I am sure that when Candle's new found enthusiasm (if this is the case) dissipates, as it surely will, more reasonable and balanced thinking will replace his temporary fanaticism.

Yes I was once an extreme pro-American right wing supporter, wishing to bomb anything that looked like it was wearing a towel or riding a camel... but I have not gone from "one extreme to another"... I have gone from one extreme to the middle ground of understanding the reality of US foreign policy...

Global Islam? Come on. This can't be the real aspiration of any right thinking American (assuming Candle is). Because it is contrary to the beliefs he himself seems to endorse. And this is not specific to Islam, obviously. It is contrary to any belief in freedom and tolerance and reason. Which are principals I believe Candle really does hold dear.

Let me clarify... the globally community of Islam was given as 1 of 3 potential strategic powers which would help to alleviate the hegemony of a single superpower over time... such a counterbalance would be geopolitically healthy in my view...

On another note, I would prefer it if you would not equate my comments with those of our self-proclaimed would-be murderer from Macedonia

 

[daniel_m]

quote from daniel_m

personally, if the situation arose, i'd be glad to legally place a bullet into your forehead

i thought that one would raise a few eyebrows

do u realize what i meant by "if the situation arose"? have a think about it.

in such a situation, i would be more than willing to, happy, in fact, to fight - yep, take lives - to preserve the western way of life. obviously if cockroaches like candle took up the fight, my putting a bullet in his head would be considered quite 'legal'.

get it?

one more thing, the modern world wasn't created by everyone holding hands and singing "we are the world". people had to fight for it. such is the example that history has given us time and time and time again.

i see no reason to think that we are so 'evolved' and 'mature' that such a basic thing as resolving differences through war is just gonna disappear. it's a harsh reality, aint it...

 

[candletrader]

Quote from daniel_m:



i thought that one would raise a few eyebrows

do u realize what i meant by "if the situation arose"? have a think about it.

in such a situation, i would be more than willing to, happy, in fact, to fight - yep, take lives - to preserve the western way of life. obviously if cockroaches like candle took up the fight, my putting a bullet in his head would be considered quite 'legal'.

get it?

one more thing, the modern world wasn't created by everyone holding hands and singing "we are the world". people had to fight for it. such is the example that history has given us time and time and time again.

i see no reason to think that we are so 'evolved' and 'mature' that such a basic thing as resolving differences through war is just gonna disappear. it's a harsh reality, aint it...

You seem to be somewhat confused... go back and carefully read my posts and re-assess the content of your replies...

 

[traderfut2000]

Quote from rs7:



Daniel,

Women in Islamic world....well I had this discussion several times with TF....In Israel Muslim women can vote. Even hold political office. In Saudi Arabia I don't know if they are free to even breath without a man's permission.

rs7

Mr Rs7,

How old are you my friend.. I told you a thousadn times that women could vote in muslim countries yet like a blind man blinded by stupid propaganda you repeat the same thing over and over again. Yes women can vote in muslim countries and more than that they are in the congress and even ministers.

You want more??? So please just stop to say lies. and please use your memory and don't change my words???? Is that ok. You keep on repeating the same things. Conerning Cut and paste I asked your friend STu to check all my posts and calculate the percentage of my posts that are cut and paste. Since you are accusing bring the evidences If not you don't have the right to say anything on the subjet.

 

[daniel_m]

rs7, candle's various assessments of world political situations and possible consequances are so far off the mark they barely show up on the radar.
he's obviously got some emotional hang up about the west that he'd do much better spending time to justify to the rest of us rather than waste his time spewing his misguided garbage every chance he gets..

another thing, i spend a GREAT deal of time thinking these things over. i have many reasons for regarding the western way of life as vastly superior nearly all the other dogshit out there, and i'm afraid there's a very real chance it could go the way of the hula hoop.. and that concerns me.

 

[traderfut2000]

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/islam/fact2.htm
http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20020510/index.php

Go to muslim countries. speak with those people instead of repeating the same old story. You know nothibg and you judge the biggest religion on planet earth. Come on I am disppointed your level is so low guys.

Muslims Are Good Folks

I wish more Americans had an opportunity to get to know Muslims. Then they would not be susceptible to the silly anti-Muslim propaganda that is floated by some right-wing Christians.

Muslims are good folks. One fellow e-mailed me quite convinced that Muslims lop off the heads of every infidel they meet. I've been a guest in the homes of many Muslim friends, and the only thing they lopped off were extra servings of lamb.

People believe such nonsense because they are ignorant of the facts. The oldest Christian communities in the world are in Muslim countries. Some of the oldest Jewish communities in the world are in Muslim countries. The deputy foreign minister of Iraq is a Christian. Saddam Hussein donated $1 million to help build a Christian church in the United States. There are Christians in practically all Muslim countries, and there have been for centuries. I've said all this before, but when lies blow strong, truth bears repeating.

Islam, like other religions, has different groups. Some are strict in their observances, and they might be likened to the Christian Pilgrims who settled Massachusetts. But even the most strict - commonly called fundamentalists these days - know that a Muslim is commanded to treat Jews and Christians "as I would treat myself," in the words of a Hamas leader.

In my travels in Muslim countries, sometimes among the poorest of the poor, I was never panhandled or attacked. As far as crime goes, you'll find cities like Beirut or Damascus or Amman or Ramallah much safer than most American cities.

Islam is not a religion with a hierarchy such as the Roman Catholic Church. In that respect, Muslims are much like Southern Baptists, only more so. Any group of Muslims can build a mosque and hire themselves an imam, or teacher. They are independent. There is no Muslim pope or College of Cardinals. There are no bishops. When an imam somewhere issues a fatwa, which is a sort of formal opinion on a subject, it is not binding. Like Protestant Christians, Muslims interpret their holy writings themselves and consider themselves answerable directly to God - or, to use the Arabic word, Allah.

Most of the disputes in the Middle East are secular and political. Hamas' quarrel with Israelis is not about the fact that they are Jews but about the fact that they occupy Palestine. The objections some Muslims have to Western culture are the same as those some Christians have. They don't like the violence, the immorality, the pornography and the greed. The conflict one sees between the religious and the secular in some Muslim countries is similar to the conflict in this country between religious and secular folks.

There are 6 million or 7 million American citizens who are Muslims. Muslims have been in this country since the late 19th century. If you don't already, you should make an effort to get to know Muslims. You'll find that they don't fit the stereotypes created by mean-spirited propaganda or superficial news coverage.

Racism is a monstrous injustice because it imposes a stereotype on millions of innocent individuals. The only real solution is education and broad experience. It seems to me that God creates individuals one at a time, and it is the human mind that insists on grouping and classifying them. We should resist that temptation.


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Charley Reese can be contacted at briarl@earthlink.net.

 

[Babak]

Quote from traderfut2000:

When an imam somewhere issues a fatwa, which is a sort of formal opinion on a subject, it is not binding.

Salman Rushdie (British author), Aghajari (Iranian professor) and that Nigerian journalist (who wrote about the Miss World pageant) would sure like to hear this. Please hurry and tell them.

Oh...wait! They're in hiding fearing for their lives. Never mind then....

 

[traderfut2000]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...ode=&contentId=A53018-2002Sep22&notFound=true

http://www.thetruereligion.org/yfm.htm

 

[traderfut2000]

Ah yes,
Salman Rushdie knew what he did. I don't think he is under threat in all muslim countries but in pakistan he certainly is.

This guy wrote a book that by the way was a complete disaster just to make money and he made a lot of money. period...

So i won't cry for him.