POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq

[TM_Direct]

The french are chicken.....How long from the day Germany invaded did it take? As far as my Anti-French stance, Im not worried about ruffling feathers...what are they going to do, beat me up??? ...oh no...im so afraid...I'll go hide my sheep!

The Germans are still inherently racist and against anybody who is not part of their so called perfect race....the skin heads are alive and well in Germany....ho long before they start having border troubles again? They caused not one but TWO F#ing World WARS in the last 70 years.....but they are going to pass judgement on the US? Please..If it wasn't for Europe (Germans and French) displacing and trying to eliminate the Jewish race, they would still be there and not in Israel....They are to blame

 

[TM_Direct]

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September 3, 1939 ... France declares war on Germany ... http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1939/sep39/f03sep39.htm

June 25, 1940 ... France signs armistice with Germany ... http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1940/jun40/f22jun40.htm
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OH MY GOD !! THE FRENCH ARE CAPITALISTIC IMPERIALISTIC WAR MONGERS LOOKING TO GET THEIR HANDS ON THE BECKS BREWING COMPANY!!!


Nice declaration too....It's kind of like me issuing a challenge on Elite to fight Lennox Lewis.....In the future , when you declare war on somebody, you supposed to fight, not come sniffling to the USA and say "save my ass" because we are too cowardly.....

 

[daniel_m]

Quote from wild:

... In addition, this is a country (France) that was invaded and conquered by Germany in about 8 days....not exactly a strong showing

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September 3, 1939 ... France declares war on Germany ... http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1939/sep39/f03sep39.htm

June 25, 1940 ... France signs armistice with Germany ... http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1940/jun40/f22jun40.htm
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8 days ?

regards

wild

Try May 10, Germany begins Operation Sichelschnitt; an attack on the Low Countries and France. Octoboer 39 - April 40 known as the "Phony War" -- no actual fighting taking place.

regards

Daniel

 

[wild]

The Morgenthau Plan and the Problem of Policy Perversion

Secretary of the U.S. Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr. served in President Franklin D. Roosevelt's Cabinet from January of 1934 to July of 1945.
...

The disposition of the Ruhr Valley was one of the main topics discussed in one of the many Treasury meetings. For many years the coal fields of the Ruhr had been essential to the German economy. The British economist John Maynard Keynes had said after World War I that the Kaiser's empire was built "more truly on coal and iron than on blood and iron."13 Coal was the backbone of all German industry, vital to her electric power and to her chemical, synthetic oil, and steel industries.14 It was Morgenthau's persistent view, therefore, that the Ruhr should be "locked up and wiped out," and he was positive that the President was in "complete accord" on this point.

As the discussion proceeded, White shrewdly intimated that it might be better to place the Ruhr under international controls which would "produce reparations for twenty years." This was a straw proposal that Morgenthau promptly rejected. "Harry, you can't sell it to me at all," he said, "because it would be under control only a few years and the Germans will have another Anschluss!" The only program he would have any part of, Morgenthau declared, was "the complete shut-down of the Ruhr." When Harold Gaston, the Treasury public relations officer, interruped to ask whether this meant "driving the population out," Morgenthau replied: "I don't care what happens to the population... I would take every mine, every mill and factory and wreck it." "Of every kind?" inquired Gaston. "Steel, coal, everything. Just close it down," Morgenthau said. "You wouldn't close the mines, would you?" inquired Daniel Bell, one of the Secretary's assistants. "Sure," replied Morgenthau, and he reiterated that the only economic activity which should remain intact was agriculture — and that could be placed under some type of international control. He was for destroying Germany's economic power first, he said, and then "we will worry about the population second."

Morgenthau seemed very confident that the President would not waver in his support of a punitive program for postwar Germany. Any effective plan, however, would have to be executed within the next six months, or otherwise the Allies might suddenly become ."soft." The best way to begin, Morgenthau advised, was to have American engineers go to every synthetic gas factory, and dynamite them or "open the water valves and flood them." Then let the "great humanitarians" simply sit "back and decide about the population afterwards." Eventually the Ruhr would resemble "some of the silver mines in Nevada," Morgenthau said. "You mean like Sherman's march to the sea?" asked Dan Bell. Morgenthau answered bluntly that he would make the Ruhr a "ghost area."15

Such was the character of Secretary Morgenthau's views on the treatment of Germany. Never in American history had there been proposed a more vindictive program for a defeated nation. With the Treasury exerting unprecendented influence in determining American policy toward Germany, the fallacies of logic, evasion of issues and deliberate disregard of essential economic relationships manifest in the above conversation were incorporated in the postwar plan as finally adopted. Furthermore, no paper of any importance dealing with the occupation of Germany could be released until approved by the Treasury. The State and War Departments became virtually subservient to the Treasury in this area, normally their responsibility.16
...

more at http://www.codoh.com/germany/GERMORGEN.HTML

regards

wild

 

[daniel_m]

Quote from TM_Direct:

In the future , when you declare war on somebody, you supposed to fight, not come sniffling to the USA and say "save my ass" because we are too cowardly.....

well, you could make the same accusation against Great Britain, who also declared war in september but did nothing.... apart from some 'bombing' raids that dropped propaganda leaflets...

in all fairness, the french did actually make a fight of it, but they were really no match for the revolutionary blitzkrieg tactics of the germans.... so it's not really that they were 'cowardly'.... (although you would think, like you said, that when u declare war on someone you actually go and attack them...)

 

[wild]

Try May 10, Germany begins Operation Sichelschnitt; an attack on the Low Countries and France. Octoboer 39 - April 40 known as the "Phony War" -- no actual fighting taking place.

oh, really?

unfortunately, i tend to forget minor world history events ... like the Iraqi "war heads".

Thursday, September 7, 1939

On the Western Front... French patrols cross the frontier into Germany near Saarbrucken, marking the beginning of the Saar offensive. A total of 11 divisions advance along a 32 km frontage. There is negligible German opposition. The French mobilization is too slow and their tactical system too inflexible to permit any grander offensive operation. These gentle probes continue until September 17th when a larger advance is supposed to be made but is in fact cancelled because the Polish collapse makes it pointless.

In Berlin... Hitler meets with Admiral Erich Raeder, Commander-in-Chief of the Kriegsmarine, and orders that "in order not to provoke neutral countries, the United States in particular, it is forbidden to torpedo passenger steamers, even when sailing in convoy. Warfare against French merchant ships, attacks on French warships and mine laying off French ports is prohibited." The order is in response to the sinking of the Athenia.


Friday, May 10, 1940

On the Western Front... The Germans launch Operation Gelb, the offensive in the west. Army Group C (Leeb) holds the German frontier opposite the French Maginot Line while Army Group A (Rundstedt) makes the main attack through the Ardennes and Army Group B (Bock) makes a secondary advance through Belgium and Holland to draw the main British and French forces north. During the day, Army Group A strikes, with three armored corps in the lead, heading for Sedan, Montherme and Dinant. The advance is rapid and the little opposition, mostly French cavalry, is thrown aside. To the north, Army Group B carries out parachute landings deep inside Holland which do much to paralyze Dutch resistance, while German units cross the Maas River near Arnhem and the Belgian fort at Eben Emael is put out of action by a German airborne force which lands its gliders literally on top of it. The fort is meant to cover the crossings of the Albert Canal nearby and this is not achieved. The Luftwaffe gives powerful support. At the end of the day the German advance has gone almost exactly according to plan. Meanwhile, the Allied Plan D provides for the French 1st Army Group ( General Billotte), consisting of the British Expeditionary Force ( General Lord Gort) and the French 7th Army (General Giraud) to advance to the line of the Dyle River and the Meuse River above Namur, to be joined there by the Belgian forces and on the left to link with the Dutch. General Gamelin is the Allied Supreme Commander and General Georges commands the armies on the French Northeast Front. The Allies react quickly to the German attacks as soon as they hear of them from the Belgians. By the evening much of the Dyle line has been occupied but the troops find that there are no fortifications to compare with the positions they have prepared along the Franco-Belgian frontier during the Phony War period. Some of the reserve is therefore committed to strengthen the line. Some of the advance forces of French 7th Army make contact with the Germans in southern Holland and are roughly handled.

Monday, June 10, 1940

From Paris... French Prime Minister Reynaud appeals to President Roosevelt to intervene in the war in Europe. This appeal is repeated on June 13th but without success.

Sunday, June 16, 1940

In London... France asks Britain to be released from the obligation not to make a separate peace. In return the British make an offer to establish a state of union between the two countries, but this rather wild scheme is rejected by the French.

Monday, June 17, 1940

Britain... Churchill broadcasts saying that the Battle of France is over and that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. His message is "Let us so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, This was their finest hour."

In France... The Petain Cabinet takes office. Weygand is Minister of Defense. They announce that they are asking Germany for armistice terms. The British government understands that these will only be accepted on the condition that the French Fleet does not fall into German hands. Equally it is the German policy to stop the French Fleet and colonies from joining Britain and this is the reason for their comparative leniency in allowing the establishment of Vichy as a focus for the loyalty for the French. French representatives in the USA do allow the British to take up arms orders they have made under the "Cash and Carry" rules.
...
and so on ... http://www.onwar.com/chrono/index.htm

regards

wild

 

[wild]

quote from TM_Direct

deep down the French and germans are no different then the Terrorist....Look what they did to the Jews only 50 years ago?

quote from wild

what exactly did the French and the Germans do to the Jews ... in 1953?
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Germany and Israel

Past-Present-Future

„The question is often asked whether, given the past, there can be such a thing as normality between Germans and Israelis. Put in such undifferentiated terms, the only answer I can give is „No". The relationship between our countries will always be a special one. By acknowledging what took place we keep the memory of it alive. By learning the lessons of the past we build our common future. That is German-Israeli normality." President Johannes Rau of the Federal Republic of Germany, in a speech before the Israeli Knesset (February 16, 2000).

The German-Israeli relationship is unique. It has been shaped by the memory of the Holocaust and the strong desire on the part of the German people to help ensure that the suffering endured by the Jewish people between 1933 and 1945 will never recur. Most Americans would be suprised to learn of the full extent of German-Israeli ties. In some fields, cooperation between Germany and Israel is as extensive as between Israel and the U.S.

Political Relations

In the early 1950s, Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, Prime Minister David Ben Gurion of Israel and Nahum Goldmann, chair of the Jewish Claims Conference, began the negotiations that produced the 1952 Luxembourg Agreement, Germany’s first step toward compensating the victims of the Holocaust. The close relationship that developed between Adenauer and Ben Gurion during these negotiations was instrumental in setting the tone for the development of German-Israeli relations.

Since then, a growing network of governmental and parliamentary contacts has been established between the two countries. Germany and Israel established diplomatic relations in 1965. State visits stand as highlights in the history of German-Israeli relations: for example, President Roman Herzog’s first official visit outside Europe was to Israel in 1994. Prime Minister Ehud Barak was the first foreign leader received in Berlin after the German government’s relocation from Bonn in the fall of 1999. Chancellor Schröder’s most recent visit to Israel took place in October 2000.

Germany has also taken an active role in expanding ties between Israel and the EU. During Germany’s 1994 EU presidency, the groundwork was laid for transforming the 1975 European-Israeli agreement on cooperation into a treaty on association which entered into force in June 2000. A treaty on scientific and technical cooperation negotiated at the same time went into effect during Germany’s EU presidency in the first half of 1999.

The Human Dimension

German-Israeli relations rest on a foundation of support from committed citizens in both countries, individuals who, in full remembrance of the past, want to contribute to mutual understanding and friendship. The involvement of so many people at the grassroots level is one of the most remarkable features of German-Israeli relations. Churches and trade unions have also been particularly active in fostering relations. The German peace organization Action Reconciliation (Aktion Sühnezeichen) has played an especially important role in bringing Germans and Israelis together. Since 1961, Action Reconciliation has sent about 2,500 volunteers to work in Israeli hospitals and social welfare programs.

More than 100 towns and cities in Germany and Israel maintain partnerships and „sister city" relationships. There are also a number of school partnerships and exchange programs to foster contacts between young Germans and Israelis. Roughly 2,000 Israelis and 4,500 Germans currently participate each year in the exchange program run by Germany’s Federal Ministry for the Family, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth. Since 1965, over two million young people have taken part in exchanges sponsored by the German government.

Economics

Germany is one of Israel's largest trading partners. German-Israeli trade increased by 15% to U.S. $3.3 billion in the first three quarters of the year 2000 (compared with the first three quarters of 1999). Exports from Israel to Germany increased by 32 % despite the strong Shekel, reducing the bilateral trade deficit to about $1 billion. Technically advanced products made in Germany are especially appreciated in Israel because of their reputation for quality and reliability. Israelis import German machinery, cars and electronics as well as chemicals, pharmaceuticals and a large variety of consumer goods. Many important German brands are represented in Israel by Israeli businessmen or through joint ventures. Siemens, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen and Henkel are among the biggest German companies with offices or industrial plants in Israel. In recent years, cooperation between German and Israeli companies in high tech sectors such as information technology, communication and biotechnology has dramatically increased. Israel also continues to supply foodstuff and many consumer articles to Germany. The number of Germans traveling to Israel on vacation has been growing steadily. In 1999, for example, more than 180,000 German visitors came for an average stay of 11.3 days. Germans were the third largest group, behind Americans and Britons, of tourists who traveled to Israel that year.

Science and Culture

The cornerstone of German-Israeli cooperation in science and research is the long-standing partnership between the Minerva Foundation, a subsidiary of the Max Planck Society, and the Weizmann Institute. Since 1964, Germany's Federal Ministry of Education and Research has provided $190 million to Israeli scholarship programs, research projects and academic centers. Funds are also distributed through Israel’s National Committee for Research and Development and research endowments at individual Israeli universities. The German-Israeli Foundation for Research and Development provides funding for joint research projects in Israel ($9 million per year from an endowment of $150 million).

Cultural exchange is very lively in the fields of music, theater and the arts. Approximately 1,300 Israelis participate in German language courses at the Goethe Institutes in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem every year. German foundations, educational and cultural institutions play an important part in maintaining contacts between the two countries. Their efforts are supplemented by cultural exchange projects sponsored by Germany’s 16 federal states and a number of German municipalities.

Holocaust Restitution

From the time of its founding in 1949, the Federal Republic of Germany has assumed responsibility for making restitution for the crimes committed during the Nazi era to the extent that restitution is possible. No matter how large the sum, no amount of money will ever suffice to compensate for National Socialist persecution. But in dealing with the legacy of the Hitler regime, the Federal Republic of Germany has established a precedent for legislating and implementing a comprehensive system of restitution.

For an overview of the legal foundations for this system and of the compensation that has been provided to Holocaust survivors, Jewish organizations and the state of Israel, see the paper "German Compensation for National Socialist crimes."

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/israel.html


German Compensation for National Socialist Crimes

http://www.ushmm.org/assets/frg.htm#7

Germany Info

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/index.html

German American Solidarity

http://www.germany-info.org/gasf/index.htm


regards

wild

 

[fairplay]

Quote from TM_Direct

So there were two worldwars since 1933? Did I miss one?

Now I understand why Mr Wild always ends his posts with regards. Even by leaving out certain letters does not make your language appropriate!

regards

 

[wild]

quote from TM_Direct

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How come there's no mention of the war heads they found today?
...

... If they take out the Eiffel Tower,The French wouldn't be angry at them, they would blame US policy and help the terror cause because ... deep down the French and germans are no different then the Terrorist....Look what they did to the Jews only 50 years ago?
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good news for the Eiffel tower ... and the French cowards

"The warheads, which fit Katyusha multiple rocket launchers, have a range of just over four miles."

more at http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,876601,00.html


regards

wild

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from wild:

quote from TM_Direct

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How come there's no mention of the war heads they found today?
...

... If they take out the Eiffel Tower,The French wouldn't be angry at them, they would blame US policy and help the terror cause because ... deep down the French and germans are no different then the Terrorist....Look what they did to the Jews only 50 years ago?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

good news for the Eiffel tower ... and the French cowards

"The warheads, which fit Katyusha multiple rocket launchers, have a range of just over four miles."

more at http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,876601,00.html


regards

wild

Their range of the weapons is irrelevant.

A breach of a contract is a breach of a contract.

UN officials said it did not immediately appear that the munitions were accounted for in Iraq's 12,000-page declaration of its arsenal last December 8, an omission that could represent a breach of security council resolutions.


A minor or a major infraction is yet an infraction. Do the crime, do the time.

Rationalization of the facts of a violation just shows the intention of Wild....and a minimization of the range of the weapons is a subtle attempt to support Saddam.

If there is a minor infraction by the Americans, in his mind it is front page news....and requires damnation and immediate action.

It is this kind of bias that is the hallmark of a small minded, closed minded thinker.

Typical of the costant propaganda machine known as Wild.